Maya Forstater on front page of Daily Mail

[EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn]

Yes, it’s the Mail. No, I’m not apologising. This is fantastic!

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10674135/Three-women-launch-significant-female-movement-Suffragettes.html

I get everyone thinks it's a great idea

I don’t think thats the case at all

@UnconditionalSurrender

FS. I didn't say they were bigots. I don't hate all DM readers, my mother is one, but the paper itself, lies and manipulates people in the worst possible way.

I get everyone thinks it's a great idea but I don't. In return I've been patronised, insulted and told to Fuck Off. Told to go away and have a long hard think because people here must be better informed than me. There is a debate to be had about aligning your cause with a certain section of the press, for whatever reason, but this is obviously not the place to have it. There were a few people who agreed with me but they probably got scared off by the vitriol. If you're not with us you're agin us.
So I'll just fuck off.

You have to understand women are not aligning themselves with any particular party, because this issue transcends politics.

Maya Forstater writing an article for the Daily Mail is not aligning herself with the right wing.

She is getting her voice heard by people who read the daily mail. Which is more people than she can access in any other way, apart from mumsnet.

If we want to stop men destroying women's sports, and keep rapists out of women's prisons, and stop an entire generation of children being told they need to live and die by sexist stereotypes, you have to access everyone.

All the people. Not just those whose politics you agree with.

I don't think you're a troll, or a TRA, i'm just not sure you understand how desperate the situation is, and how we need to tell us many people as possible. That just happens to be Daily Mail readers.

Im not sure where anyone told you to fuck off

That sort of post gets deleted on here

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer

Im not sure where anyone told you to fuck off

That sort of post gets deleted on here

I said fuck off. It wasn't really directed personally to UnconditionalSurrender, it was the sentiment that women have been through so much, and suffered such a lot, but if we need to talk to a conservative newspaper, then omg, that's the bloody end.

And I have to say, which I would hope was perfectly bloody obvious, that there are millions of conservative voting women who don't want their children subjected to this ideology. They don't agree with rapists in women's prisons. They would like women's sport to remain female only.

And not because they're frothing bigots.

But because they don't want it in exactly the same way that left wing women don't want it.

Honestly UnconditionalSurrender, I think you're being a bit extreme about this.

I remember watching an interview with Julie Bindel who was asked why she wrote articles for the Spectator. She replied that she thought it was a good idea for Spectator readers to get some feminism in their reading matter. I agree. My FiL reads the Speccy, it pleases me to think of him getting a bit of Bindel with his morning coffee.

datun

Yeah you said fuck off but you didnt tell her that she should fuck off

I just said fuck me in response to an email…dh didnt take it as an invite

Though i really should be more careful 🤔

He gets a little hopeful look on his face…

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer

Though i really should be more careful 🤔

He gets a little hopeful look on his face…

🤣🤣🤣

It’s really odd to see Datun swearing - I bet she’s far too refined to do that IRL!

The Mail has done a hell of a lot more for feminism lately than the Guardian has.

I just said fuck me in response to an email…dh didnt take it as an invite

I found that very funny - and I expect the hopeful look is hovering about!

There's also the example up here in Scotland where the Tories are extremely unlikely to get into power at any point but it's our left wing, 'progressive' Government which is fucking women rights over wholesale.

The right wing = bad, left wing = good mindset is a bit tedious given the situation here.

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer

Though i really should be more careful 🤔

He gets a little hopeful look on his face…

It’s good to see you swear Datun. I swear a fair bit irl and hope that was cathartic.

Proud of all the women and men who never gave up the fight on this issue. Who refused to roll over and capitulate.

@UnconditionalSurrender There is a debate to be had about aligning your cause with a certain section of the press, for whatever reason, but this is obviously not the place to have it.

There is a debate to be had as to why a certain section of the press, no doubt one you align yourself with, are not aligning or even handedly presenting the issues or GC cause don't you think?

How long do you suggest women wait for those outlets to think Oh perhaps there are some problems with this, what is the number of women and children harmed by this that is acceptable before they engage?

The Mail is read by many voters a number of them Tories a lot of this crap is happening under a Tory Government the opinions of their readers will be fed into the Tory party. They should be covering it and so should other areas of the press.

@Datun

And I have to say, which I would hope was perfectly bloody obvious, that there are millions of conservative voting women who don't want their children subjected to this ideology. They don't agree with rapists in women's prisons. They would like women's sport to remain female only.

And not because they're frothing bigots.

But because they don't want it in exactly the same way that left wing women don't want it.

Honestly UnconditionalSurrender, I think you're being a bit extreme about this.

Exactly. This is not a left or right issue.

And to add to that anyone who thinks TRA orgs/individuals haven't spent years lobbying every media outlet and politician across the entire spectrum of left and right is very naive. It's a huge part of why we're in this mess and the fact much of it was done in the shadows doesn't change anything.

There's zero reason for women to hinder ourselves over purity because I can guarantee you, no matter what they say publicly, the opposition are and have been speaking to everyone and anyone who will listen.

Also @UnconditionalSurrender if you're still reading, please be aware that painting gc feminists as right wing is a deliberate attempt by transactivists to shut down the discussion.

'Oh my God you've written in the Daily Mail, whatever you say is not worth reading'.

They do it by calling us racists and homophobes as well.

Don't be sucked in by that bit of manipulation.

There's zero reason for women to hinder ourselves over purity because I can guarantee you, no matter what they say publicly, the opposition are and have been speaking to everyone and anyone who will listen.

Exactly. And then try to use that exact same tactic against women.

In simple terms, how the hell are you going to affect a Tory government, unless you're willing to talk to Tories???

People are either going to read it in the daily mail or know nothing about it.

Agree with this. We don’t need the people who won’t read about this because it’s in the Daily Mail. Those people have probably already formed a view and it’s not the pro-women one. We need to get this out to the public at large.

@UnconditionalSurrender

I hate the DM - viscerally hate it. I hate The Sun. I think they cause misery and undermine democracy in this country. It is rampantly and actively works to divide society. Its not just that its a 'right wing' paper. The fact its got the biggest circulation in the country is depressing because it plays to peoples worst insecurities about Muslims, refugees, gay people . That's why I cannot buy the whole ignoring this just to promote your cause. I don't trust that they aren't using it to further polarise the issue. So people on here accusing me of finger wagging and being purist either don't realise or don't care how much damage this sort of media does. They will minimise it and demonise those that don't want to use it. Don't worry that they could become useful idiots of those who wish to divide us further.

But it appears that makes a fucking idiot and people being not so funny taking the piss.

In another post, you mentioned your mother being a Daily Mail reader.

Let's be very, very blunt here.

My mother is an ex-prisoner. I grew up hearing anecdotes about exactly how grim prison was, including slop buckets (prison slang for the chamber pot you use to go to the toilet while you're locked in your cell. The cell you share with at least one other person), communal showers, and the number of girls who had been in there with her because they were ex-care leavers.

84% of women in prison are there for non-violent crimes. 31% spent time in care as children. Many are sexual abuse survivors. And now women in prison are being raped and sexually abused by male transitioners.

And I empathise with those women, because they are women like my mother. If your mother was in prison with a male rapist, which would be more important to you?
A) Getting the word out about male transitioners raping women in prison as soon as possible and getting the policy changed, or
B) Purity of association, meaning you would wait as long as it took for the Guardian and no other to cover the issue?

Those who dismiss things because they disapprove of the place they read them simply demonstrate their lack of critical faculties.

Julie Bindel, radical feminist, tireless lifelong campaigner for women and against violence to women and girls, co-founder of the Centre for Women's Justice and passionate woman of the left has written several articles for both the Mail and the Mail on Sunday about violence against women and about transgender / women's rights.

Some of them listed here:
www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?sel=site&searchPhrase=Julie+Bindel

That alone puts paid to fanciful allegations that the Mail only comes at these topics from the extreme right. And she's far from the only contributor or columnist from the feminist left.

“When you realise that a judge actually ruled that believing in biological sex and that it matters was a 'belief not worthy of respect in a democratic society' then yes, it doesn't get much more significant for women.“

100% the above.