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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Guess what? Women hate gender neutral toilets...

248 replies

SunniDelite · 22/02/2022 10:43

Report in a couple of papers this morning...
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10536737/West-End-drama-gender-neutral-toilets-Theatregoers-blast-gross-restrooms.html
I might have gone (if the tickets hadn't been so expensive) but I shall certainly make a note to avoid this theatre in the future...

OP posts:
Datun · 22/02/2022 17:35

@MoodyMooToo

Never classed myself as a feminist but lately things have been getting ridiculous. They have installed gender neutral toilets in my office. Told them no way am I using them and now walk to the nearest ladies, on work time, not my own.
See, this is what's happening now.

Women who would maybe not have called themselves feminists, because they, understandably, assumed that women's rights weren't just taken care of, but were largely completely normal, now find out that actually, these rights were given to women rather grudgingly, and they are skin bloody deep. And yes, of course, it was feminists who fought tooth and nail for them, and who realised exactly how temporary they could be. Why else would you have to have ironclad, concrete, unequivocal laws just to give women the same rights as men?

It was a massive shock to me to realise that rape within marriage was not only completely legal until 1992, but it took FIFTEEN years of women campaigning to have it made against the law.

That's fifteen years of meetings, petitions, debates, minutes taken, memos sent. The number of people who must have thought, 'nah, you've got to be able to rape your wife, at the very least', is astounding.

And now, with a snap of a misogynist's fingers, women - elderly, young, disabled, raped, and religious, are having to file past urinating men with their cocks out, just in order to relieve themselves or change a tampon, or express some milk. Because an absolutely minuscule number of men are demanding it.

And yes, I'm sure most decent men are just as aghast. But who, for the love of God, does not think that there will be men who are absolutely lapping it up. Either those doing the pissing, or those who are thoroughly enjoying women having to witness it.

Because, let's face it, it wouldn't be happening if men didn't want it to.

Mrsjayy · 22/02/2022 17:35

Thank you.
MW is a fool, so is PS. I wonder what HW said or thinks? I doubt she wold be keen.
I really hope loads of people , especially women did get in touch

I wonder if they did it might be on the Facebook page. HOLLY was being neutral probably didn't know the "right" thing to say. I know PS is an arse but he was really understanding about it.

Datun · 22/02/2022 17:35

Ooh @MoodyMooToo and I wanted to say, well done for not caving in to the compliance police.

Mrsjayy · 22/02/2022 17:37

Mathew Wright on the other hand!

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 22/02/2022 17:38

@Kimilybob

I dont think many of the people commenting here fully understand the concept of gender neutral toilets. It doesnt mean men and women share toilet space! Its been around for years and until all thos trans stuff started surfacing women werent bothered by it in the least.
Utter rubbish
Datun · 22/02/2022 17:51

@Kimilybob

I dont think many of the people commenting here fully understand the concept of gender neutral toilets. It doesnt mean men and women share toilet space! Its been around for years and until all thos trans stuff started surfacing women werent bothered by it in the least.
Well in this case it absolutely does mean that men and women are sharing toilet space.

How else would you describe women literally walking past men pissing at a urinal? And not just walking past them, but actually standing there for maybe 10 minutes waiting for a cubicle, whilst man after man comes in there to piss?

Or do you think the women should just leave and go into the facility that doesn't have urinals...???

Because I'm not sure I could handle the rampant hypocrisy of that solution to be honest.

One toilet, in a small cafe, that everyone uses, which you could call 'gender neutral', it's not what this is.

And nor, for the love of God, is your bog at home, MW. Unless you are inviting six or seven hundred strangers, off the street, to use it too.

renovating · 22/02/2022 17:53

I was in motorway service station late one evening recently. A large man in motorcycle gear plus helmet went into the ladies toilet just ahead of me. He may have made a mistake, but I didn't feel I could challenge him. A few years ago I would have just called over that he was in the wrong place. I waited outside until he came out.
I feel very uncomfortable in mixed sex large public toilets that are down corridors and round corners. I am far less worried about individual cubicles that are in a visible to the public space like in a small restaurant.
I think most women would feel similarly.
I went to a London museum with DH a couple of years ago. The toilets are now mixed sex. We both felt uncomfortable.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 22/02/2022 18:43

There us not enough female toilet provision anyway

I went to a petrol station toilet a few months ago, one door for the ladies loo, marked as disabled, baby change and ladies, there were three of us stood outside for over 5 minutes

The gents obviously had urinals because 10+ men walked past us into the gents and came back out after a minute or so

Then the ladies loo opened and a man walked out

Somebody on here rightly pointed out that he may have had a hidden disability but the fact still remained that there was one female toilet and 8+ Urinals/cubicles in the gents

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 22/02/2022 18:59

We will be able to say this as gin scented tears trickle down our cheeks, the clock strikes 13, and we know that we love Big Sibling.

Hadro, you will understand why I cannot see my spineless Labour MP without physically restraining myself from holding up four fingers and saying "And if the Party says it's five?"

And I'm pretty sure he's read George Orwell.

Rhannion · 22/02/2022 19:10

Don’t restrain yourself next time, let the fool see how you and millions of others feel about this.

Hasselhoffsheadband · 22/02/2022 19:13

They were talking about it on Talk Radio and lo and behold, Richard Power Sayeed, who I have never heard of but appears to be yet another He/Him Wokey Blokey, is on there saying 'it's fiiiiiiiine, no one cares about this stuff, it's just a tiny number of silly little women getting their knickers in a knot over nothing'.

Fuck off Richard. We do care. Women matter, our needs matter, you clearly need reminding of that.

Hasselhoffsheadband · 22/02/2022 19:15

And several people using the 'well your toilet at home isn't single sex is it? Eh, eh, eh?'

Like, how could anyone actually be that stupid?

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 22/02/2022 19:20

@Hasselhoffsheadband

And several people using the 'well your toilet at home isn't single sex is it? Eh, eh, eh?'

Like, how could anyone actually be that stupid?

I honestly don’t know

I think some people are very, very stupid

nightwakingmoon · 22/02/2022 19:24

@renovating

I was in motorway service station late one evening recently. A large man in motorcycle gear plus helmet went into the ladies toilet just ahead of me. He may have made a mistake, but I didn't feel I could challenge him. A few years ago I would have just called over that he was in the wrong place. I waited outside until he came out. I feel very uncomfortable in mixed sex large public toilets that are down corridors and round corners. I am far less worried about individual cubicles that are in a visible to the public space like in a small restaurant. I think most women would feel similarly. I went to a London museum with DH a couple of years ago. The toilets are now mixed sex. We both felt uncomfortable.
I was in a service station women’s loo today with my preteen daughter and asked her to wait by the basins for me until I came out (perfectly normal). When I came out of my cubicle I found her looking uncomfortable and a very large non-passing person with long dyed pink hair, a tartan miniskirt and a frilly blouse, standing staring at my DD. The person then went into the cubicle I’d just come out of (when there were plenty of others free).

I was a bit unnerved by this interaction - this person didn’t “pass” in any respect and was wearing quite a bizarre outfit. The staring at a small girl was very offputting.

The thing is, despite being in my forties I have never really seen anyone behaving oddly in a women’s service station loo, even late at night. Normally they are just full of a queue of middle aged and older women and a few mums with little girls. I took my daughter into a cubicle with me until she was about 6, but surely we should be able to allow little girls over 6 to go in a cubicle on their own and wait by the sinks in the middle of the day during half term, without worrying that a male person is hanging about in there too staring at kids?

Anyway, I suppose this is the brave new world of the mixed sex loos - you and your small kids don’t get to feel comfortable even when you’re having a quick wee, because everyone and anyone who’s wearing a skirt can come in too.

All those who think it’s no big deal - is it OK for a child to be made uncomfortable too? Or is it just a case of they have to suck it up until they’re old enough to not be visibly afraid of large male bodied strangers who stare? Or is this one of those things that never happens?

FemaleAndLearning · 22/02/2022 19:27

I know I'm boring as I say this on all these types of threads but language is really important here.

Don't use gender neutral, there is no such thing it means mixed sex.

Single sex toilets for women are in a room or space with multiple cubicles and shared sinks. Each cubicle will have a toilet, period bin and lockable door. Wash basins will be in the shared space.

Unisex toilets are a single lockable rooms with toilet, wash basin and period bin. They should open onto a public corridor. So think of your local cafe. These will often be the accessible toilet too and baby change.

Mixed sex - a room or space (no doors onto public space) with cubicles and from what I've heard open urinals. Each cubicle will have a toilet and period bin. The wash basins are shared.

It will be really good to ring ahead to a venue before booking and asking them which type they have.

Also toilets are a good example of equity and equality. Women don't need the same or equal square footage for toilets we need them to be more equitable so more space to allow more cubicles. Men and women could have the same square footage but the men's will have say 4 urinals and 2 cubicles so 6 facilities in total. However the women's though the same square footage only have 4 cubicles so less facilities.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 22/02/2022 22:31

Thank you for the glossary, FemaleAndLearning that is very helpful.

Good overview of the discussion by Sarah Vine now published in Daily Mail:

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10540621/SARAH-VINE-Gender-neutral-loos-prove-weve-gone-mad.html

Kimilybob · 23/02/2022 00:10

If youre choosing this hill to die on at least get the facts straight. Not 1 right that women enjoy has been lost.

FiftyStoriesHigh · 23/02/2022 00:17

Ah, the missed irony of the female symbol being a person in a dress. And isn’t that how we’ve ended up here anyway?

It’s mixed sex. Nothing to do with gender.

MillieMoonbeam · 23/02/2022 00:20

£250 for a ticket and the pleasure of sharing a toilet space with men in the interval? No thanks!

Enough4me · 23/02/2022 00:22

@Kimilybob Tell that to the women who can never compete with Thomas

Enough4me · 23/02/2022 00:27

...in women's swimming races. The women attacked by Karen White's penis in a female prison. The women now put off going to theatres.

Enough4me · 23/02/2022 00:28

Mixed sex sport, mixed sex loos, mixed sex awards, mixed sex facilities = men gain, women lose.

Rhannion · 23/02/2022 00:50

@Kimilybob

If youre choosing this hill to die on at least get the facts straight. Not 1 right that women enjoy has been lost.
Are you quite sure about that? 🤔
Rhannion · 23/02/2022 00:55

Great post Datun.

Kimilybob · 23/02/2022 01:06

Yes im very sure. Although feel free to correct me

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