Guess what? Women hate gender neutral toilets...

[SunniDelite]

Report in a couple of papers this morning...
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10536737/West-End-drama-gender-neutral-toilets-Theatregoers-blast-gross-restrooms.html
I might have gone (if the tickets hadn't been so expensive) but I shall certainly make a note to avoid this theatre in the future...

@Janesmom

Provided they have the same number of loos, that’s more for women to use. I have rarely seen men queuing for the loo.

Quite the opposite. Some men will not mind having women watch them pissing. But others will wait for a cubicle, increasing wait time for women… not to mention the indignity of having to witness men peeing.

[quote redredredredlorry]@Rhannion
JHB was massively against it, saying neither men nor women want this.

MW said it's fine, he has a gender neutral toilet at home and there's no issues. PS asked if he'd be happy if his neighbour from across the street wanted to come over wash their hands in the bathroom whilst MW was having a wee and MW said he wouldn't have a problem with it.
MW made some weird comment, something about men complimenting his 'tackle' or asking for an autograph whilst he uses the urinal. I didn't really get what point he was trying to make.

Finished with MW calling for trans voices on the topic, then PS inviting people to get involved.[/quote]
Thank you.
MW is a fool, so is PS. I wonder what HW said or thinks? I doubt she wold be keen.
I really hope loads of people , especially women did get in touch

Please stop the “all women think (x)” silliness. I really don’t have a problem with this and would actually be quite happy to have a shorter queue!

Except there won't be - if there's 4 womens' cubicles, and a mens with 4 urinals and 2 cubicles, in theory the women now have access to the extra 2 cubicles, but they also now have to share their 4 cubicles with the blokes, so assuming 50/50 (not sure it is, but for ease of maths) they used to have 100% of 4 toilets, now they have 50% access to 6 toilets, so 3 toilets.

Women have lost out. Again.

@Janesmom

Provided they have the same number of loos, that’s more for women to use. I have rarely seen men queuing for the loo.

Men do not need the same square footage for loos as women. Quite the opposite in fact.

Men walk in, turn their backs to the room, un zip (but remain clothed), urinate at a comfortable height, zip up, wash hands (hopefully), and leave.

Women need a cubicle to expose their lower half, sit down, urinate/change tampon, dispose of tampon in bin (space needed for that) stand up, pull up, leave cubicle, wash hands.

The biological differences between us dictate that the process itself is entirely different in terms of time and space required.

The equivelent square footage given to mens loos and womens should actually be illegal at this point.

There won't be extra toilets provided Janesmom. And while it's fine for you not to care lots of us do and should have our wishes respected.

Privacy aside - the gender neutral toilets I have used have been disgusting. Piss on the seats and floor and smell revolting. I'd boycott anywhere that had gender neutral toilets now.

Interestingly so would a couple of males that I know. They don't want women in while they wee either.

Hopefully if women vote with their feet about this the theatres will be forced to either change their toilets back or close up shop. I will definitely not be buying tickets to any theatre that goes "gender neutral" on toilets.

I hope that if any other changes are made it will be to increase the space given to women's toilets until the queues are equalised with the mens toilets.

Except there won't be - if there's 4 womens' cubicles, and a mens with 4 urinals and 2 cubicles, in theory the women now have access to the extra 2 cubicles, but they also now have to share their 4 cubicles with the blokes, so assuming 50/50 (not sure it is, but for ease of maths) they used to have 100% of 4 toilets, now they have 50% access to 6 toilets, so 3 toilets

Queues are also likely to be several times longer now because instead of any kids/teens attending being able to go to the toilet by themselves, parents are now likely to have to accompany them too so may decide to just use it while they are there. So not only waiting for one person to finish using the cubicle, quite possibly even 3.

Whole families will be queuing instead of just one 12 yr old.

well yes, in practise, enough of the blokes will use the women's (especially if it's closer), but the first time a woman goes in the mens and has to edge past the urinals to get to a cubicle which still probably has a bloke peeing in it with the door open and no sanitary bin, they'll go back to the women's next time.

on the bright side, it might highlight the second little secret we all know and don't like to acknowledge - how few blokes wash their hands after going to the toilet (not speculation, multiple studies show it)

I dont think many of the people commenting here fully understand the concept of gender neutral toilets. It doesnt mean men and women share toilet space! Its been around for years and until all thos trans stuff started surfacing women werent bothered by it in the least.

Also what the actual fuck, Cabaret does not solely explore 'promiscuity and gender fluidity' - that is so reductive it's actually giving me the rage!

Cabaret is an exploration of the rise of anti-semitism and totalitarianism which is contrasted against the anything goes nature of the Weimar republic. It's about freedom vs oppression. It also has a cracking subplot about an older woman surviving poverty and finding love, only to have her happy ending snatched away from her by facism.

@Kimilybob

I dont think many of the people commenting here fully understand the concept of gender neutral toilets. It doesnt mean men and women share toilet space! Its been around for years and until all thos trans stuff started surfacing women werent bothered by it in the least.

The stuff that's been around for years is enclosed wcs. This is women traipsing past men who are standing at the urinals with their dick out in order to access a cubicle - not quite the same thing.

@Kimilybob

I dont think many of the people commenting here fully understand the concept of gender neutral toilets. It doesnt mean men and women share toilet space! Its been around for years and until all thos trans stuff started surfacing women werent bothered by it in the least.

I wonder if you fully understand the concept that the implementation of gender neutral toilets can vary from one venue to another and so one particular concept isn't generalisable.

On what do you base your assertion that "women werent bothered by it in the least"? How many surveys and questionnaires did you personally respond to on the matter? Were they workplace, leisure, public spaces?

I've replied to online surveys and consultations but I don't ever remember being canvassed for my opinion elsewhere.

@Kimilybob

I dont think many of the people commenting here fully understand the concept of gender neutral toilets. It doesnt mean men and women share toilet space! Its been around for years and until all thos trans stuff started surfacing women werent bothered by it in the least.

Enlighten us then.

Yes, gender neutral toilets have been around for years.

These are mixed sex toilets - pretty rare except in small places, with self-contained cubicles.

Mixed sex toilets, where women have to walk past the urinals to get to the cubicles are allegedly a thing in other places (France is often mentioned) although personally I've never seen them.

The equivelent square footage given to mens loos and womens should actually be illegal at this point.

We had one of the best days out at castle but it was marred by having same space for men/womens loos. DH and DS straight in and out 40 minutes we were stood in the womans queue - and DH and Ds moaning at time waiting for us. The women's queue was full of all the young kids as well - so that was going to add time.

I've not had that experience since childhood as since then more toilets at such locations- so shorter queues.

And as Whatwouldscullydo says we all went because one wanted it and we saw the queue and didn't want to waste even more time out of the day.

So I could see it impacting the repeat bookings sales.

@EsmaCannonball

I never understand why people think that the creeps, weirdos and yobs who harass women on the street are suddenly going to behave like respectful angels when gifted mixed-sex toilets.

Aside from that, women, specifically middle-aged women, make up the majority of theatre-goers. Despite that these companies never seem to worry about pissing us off, I suppose because they expect us to put up with any old shit. They also never think about the lost revenue of women who aren't spending money on drinks, either because they spend the entire time in the queue for the toilets or because they are avoiding drinking because they don't want to end up in the queue for the toilets. Perhaps women need to start protesting this by occupying the cubicles and refusing to leave.

Yup. Women are expected to put up with any old shit.

@MaChienEstUnDick

Also what the actual fuck, Cabaret does not solely explore 'promiscuity and gender fluidity' - that is so reductive it's actually giving me the rage!

Cabaret is an exploration of the rise of anti-semitism and totalitarianism which is contrasted against the anything goes nature of the Weimar republic. It's about freedom vs oppression. It also has a cracking subplot about an older woman surviving poverty and finding love, only to have her happy ending snatched away from her by facism.

Who said that? I don't see it on this thread.

Anyway, I'm not sure the Emcee is gender-fluid. In the song 'Two Ladies' he has the line 'Und I'm the only man [my bold].' I think he's just a bloke in guyliner.

I totally agree with your assessment of the themes and subplot BTW

I'm intrigued by the whole 'the posters here don't understand gender neutral toilets, they've been around for ages' thing.

Do you mean individual toilets, the kind found in small Cafes and the like, where there is only one toilet and only one person is in at a time? Strikes me as very similar to the whole 'your toilet at home is gender neutral!!!' strawman, often repeated by those with an unhealthy obsession with removing single sex spaces.

The spaces which we are seeing now are the traditional multi-cubicle, single sex toilets just with the sign changed. 'Gender neutral' is a misnomer. They are mixed sex. And strangely enough, women don't particularly want to see men pissing at urinals (without even going into the myriad of reasons why mixed sex toilets are shite for women).

If they have left the urinals in they are not gender neutral toilets - cubicles are what they have in Denmark, where gender neutral toilets are the norm. If I hoiked my arse up to shit in the urinal I am sure they would complain.

@fuckoffImcounting

If they have left the urinals in they are not gender neutral toilets - cubicles are what they have in Denmark, where gender neutral toilets are the norm. If I hoiked my arse up to shit in the urinal I am sure they would complain.

Love the idea of a protest shit in a urinal.

I've been to see cabaret and the men weren't happy either.
So the men had to wait with the women and once you got inside to queue you had to stand next to men pissing in the urinal.
I have to say by the interval the men used one loo and women used the other.
It didn't work.

We are actually going backwards as a species. When flush toilets were first invented, it was realised that ladies needed their own toilets as they could not stay out for too long otherwise. It revolutionised outings for everyone. There was never any question that people might actually share facilities as it was considered (rightly) that it was completely wrong. Why is it always women who have to compromise? The numbers of people of both sexes who would really want mixed sex toilets must be vanishingly small. As has been pointed out by several people, most men feel uncomfortable about being exposed by standing at urinals and most women certainly don’t want to see it, nor do they want their daughters, especially little girls, to see it. In addition to this, the smell that comes out of many mens’ toilets is not something many of us wish to experience in a mixed sex facility.

@AmandaHoldensLips

Gender neutral my arse. It's MIXED SEX. I complain very loudly wherever I see this, because it's bullshit.

No woman wants to share public toilet facilities with MEN.

This.

Yuck. Well, I won't be going there! I found myself in a 'unisex' loo a couple of years ago. When I came out of the cubicle, a man was wizzing in the urinal right next to the washbasin. The only time I didn't wash my hands.