Guess what? Women hate gender neutral toilets...

[SunniDelite]

Report in a couple of papers this morning...
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10536737/West-End-drama-gender-neutral-toilets-Theatregoers-blast-gross-restrooms.html
I might have gone (if the tickets hadn't been so expensive) but I shall certainly make a note to avoid this theatre in the future...

@Elsiebear90

We have unisex toilets as well as male and female ones at work (hospital), they are private rooms though with a sink in, I don’t find them much dirtier than the female toilets, but I have a feeling it’s because I work primarily with females anyway, so they aren’t used by many men.

I don’t understand why they can’t leave male and female toilets as they are and then create some unisex ones for people who want to use them, then everyone is happy.

They won't do this on principle. Women want them, therefore we can't have them, because that keeps us in our place, with our rights and protections on a shoogly peg so we know that we are dependent on men's 'generosity' for everything we rely on.

So I'm wondering if the men have to queue along with us or will they just push past us to use the urinals? They're not gonna like queueing!

Please stop the “all women think (x)” silliness. I really don’t have a problem with this and would actually be quite happy to have a shorter queue!

FWR = Feminism and Women's Rights was the original name of this topic area. Womens Rights is still in the URL. Longterm users still think of this area as FWR.

FWR has been under special moderation rules for some time because of issues relating to sex and gender (updated sticky that has previously had several names).

Over the years there have been lots of lots of complaints to MNHQ that the feminism on FWR was mean and that it was impossible to talk here without being expected to know about feminism. This had led to previous incarnations of the board being renamed and split several times but it still all ended up under Feminist Chat.

Last year, there was a renewed slew of complaints about meanness and that the board was dominated by discussion about legislation and other events concerning sex and gender or asserting women's human rights and not allowing them to be erased in service of a gender ideology.

As you'll see in Site Stuff, there was a mass of discussion. MNHQ decided that Feminist Chat would be the main board for the topic and that those of us discussing this live issue would be hived off to the Sex and Gender topic. This would create a 'safe space' for all of those women who wanted to discuss feminism but didn't want to discuss sex or gender ideology.

However, relative to how it was, Feminist Chat is now tumbleweed. So much so, that MNHQ is now moving threads initiated in Sex and Gender over to Feminist Chat.

That's a partial and editorialised potted history but Site Stuff post the Forstater decision is where you'll see all of the arguments around this.

@Whatwouldscullydo

I'm.sure I have read that women are responsible in something like 80-90 percent of cases for household spending/budgeting/organisation .

So making these places unaccessible to women and our children will mean they lose a hell of alot of custom

Exactly! Husband works full time so I decide how our disposable income is spent were the children are concerned/involved. I choose the clubs the kids go to, the places for the fun days out and any treats in between. If they can’t provide safe, dignified facilities, then we’ll go somewhere else.

But they aren't actually mixed sex toilets, are they? At least the men's aren't.

Pretty soon all the women will know which ones have urinals, and they will remain for men only.

Meanwhile , the women's are open to everyone.

The result is even longer queues for the women's as per bloody usual.

Women who are fine with it could go in the new "any gender" and leave the women's for women who don't like it...

@Janesmom

Please stop the “all women think (x)” silliness. I really don’t have a problem with this and would actually be quite happy to have a shorter queue!

Why / How would the queues be shorter?

Provided they have the same number of loos, that’s more for women to use. I have rarely seen men queuing for the loo.

@Rhannion
JHB was massively against it, saying neither men nor women want this.

MW said it's fine, he has a gender neutral toilet at home and there's no issues. PS asked if he'd be happy if his neighbour from across the street wanted to come over wash their hands in the bathroom whilst MW was having a wee and MW said he wouldn't have a problem with it.
MW made some weird comment, something about men complimenting his 'tackle' or asking for an autograph whilst he uses the urinal. I didn't really get what point he was trying to make.

Finished with MW calling for trans voices on the topic, then PS inviting people to get involved.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

FWR = Feminism and Women's Rights was the original name of this topic area. Womens Rights is still in the URL. Longterm users still think of this area as FWR.

FWR has been under special moderation rules for some time because of issues relating to sex and gender (updated sticky that has previously had several names).

Over the years there have been lots of lots of complaints to MNHQ that the feminism on FWR was mean and that it was impossible to talk here without being expected to know about feminism. This had led to previous incarnations of the board being renamed and split several times but it still all ended up under Feminist Chat.

Last year, there was a renewed slew of complaints about meanness and that the board was dominated by discussion about legislation and other events concerning sex and gender or asserting women's human rights and not allowing them to be erased in service of a gender ideology.

As you'll see in Site Stuff, there was a mass of discussion. MNHQ decided that Feminist Chat would be the main board for the topic and that those of us discussing this live issue would be hived off to the Sex and Gender topic. This would create a 'safe space' for all of those women who wanted to discuss feminism but didn't want to discuss sex or gender ideology.

However, relative to how it was, Feminist Chat is now tumbleweed. So much so, that MNHQ is now moving threads initiated in Sex and Gender over to Feminist Chat.

That's a partial and editorialised potted history but Site Stuff post the Forstater decision is where you'll see all of the arguments around this.

Thanks so much for all the info

I can see that 'Sex and Gender' is a big enough topic on its own to warrant its own section. Pity that it's had this impact on Feminist Chat though.
Or maybe Sex and Gender' IS feminism (or one of the main concerns of feminism) at the moment, and that's what the differences in traffic reflect.

Men are quicker because they only have to unzip a zip? Also they often seem to be bad shots ....

Yuk, no thanks. Wont be going to a theatre that doesn't have toilet facilities for me (a woman!).

Anywhere I visit that has suddenly changed to 'gender neutral' toilets, immediately becomes a place I don't return to.

We need to vote with our purses.

@highame

That's exactly what they could do Elsie if they considered women

Considered anyone other than a teeny number of people, because I can't see men being fully on board with this either.

The men I know don't like them either.

Or put it this way, decent good men don't like gender neutral toilets.

We need to take to the streets.

as in piss in them and back to leaving a crafty dump behind trees, I dont think they will care otherwise.

go soil the theatres back door.

Provided they have the same number of loos, that’s more for women to use. I have rarely seen men queuing for the loo

They don’t

Usually there is only one maybe two cubicles

As others have said it will lead to males in the mens and males and females in the ladies…making the ladies queue even longer

If it was male and female AND mixed sex I would absolutely use the mixed sex if the queue was shorter

We will be able to say this as gin scented tears trickle down our cheeks, the clock strikes 13, and we know that we love Big Sibling.

Very good. I'm going to nick "Big Sibling".

Any time I book a theatre ticket now, I will be emailing first to check they have single sex toilets .

@IntermittentParps there was a fairly unpleasant period in which some of those who had insisted that sex and gender issues be hived onto the 'naughty step' were telling long standing, excellent posters who were known to have GC views to 'piss off back to your own board' if they tried to join in any conversations on the Feminism:Chat board. This meant that posters have generally used the Sex and Gender board as the FWR board, where a wide variety of feminist issues (including sex and gender ones) are discussed both as stand alone threads and in thread and the Feminism:Chat is a bit of a tumbleweed. All those discussions which posters insisted that they were too intimidated to start has never materialised in their 'safe space', strangely enough.

[quote Waitwhat23]@IntermittentParps there was a fairly unpleasant period in which some of those who had insisted that sex and gender issues be hived onto the 'naughty step' were telling long standing, excellent posters who were known to have GC views to 'piss off back to your own board' if they tried to join in any conversations on the Feminism:Chat board. This meant that posters have generally used the Sex and Gender board as the FWR board, where a wide variety of feminist issues (including sex and gender ones) are discussed both as stand alone threads and in thread and the Feminism:Chat is a bit of a tumbleweed. All those discussions which posters insisted that they were too intimidated to start has never materialised in their 'safe space', strangely enough.[/quote]
Oh dear...
I'll have a look at the Feminism:Chat board. Interesting that it's not being swarmed by posters...

On a slight digression, wasn't Eddy Redmayne donning a hairshirt and whipping his back in apology to TRAs for playing the Danish Girl whilst not being a trans woman very recently? Isn't the Emcee in Cabaret gender fluid? Is Eddy? If not, isn't he being a bit of a cultural appropriation transphobe again?

@IntermittentParps you'll also notice that, despite threads being moved from here to Feminism:Chat, the reverse is not happening. The vast majority of the threads on Feminist:Chat should, if we're going by topic, be on this board. I suspect this isn't happening because it would show the difference in threads and activity rather too starkly.

[quote Waitwhat23]@IntermittentParps you'll also notice that, despite threads being moved from here to Feminism:Chat, the reverse is not happening. The vast majority of the threads on Feminist:Chat should, if we're going by topic, be on this board. I suspect this isn't happening because it would show the difference in threads and activity rather too starkly.[/quote]
Good point.