Guess what? Women hate gender neutral toilets...

[SunniDelite]

Report in a couple of papers this morning...
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10536737/West-End-drama-gender-neutral-toilets-Theatregoers-blast-gross-restrooms.html
I might have gone (if the tickets hadn't been so expensive) but I shall certainly make a note to avoid this theatre in the future...

So thats a no? No one knows of any toilets that have urinals that now encourage women to use also...

This is pretty good, even by the high standards of this board's usual maverick *splainers. How many pages have they been doing this for without reading the link in the OP?

(Sometimes I want to make a greatest hits compilation of the most entertaining 'splaining on this board. Entertaining as it is, this idiocy wouldn't make it. I think the ones with biology are usually best. Does anyone else remember the fuse box?)

@Kimilybob

So thats a no? No one knows of any toilets that have urinals that now encourage women to use also..... Youre all chasing ghosts and making up issues that dont exist.

Are you for real? Can you really not understand that many females just don't want to share spaces with men? I would never use the lavatory in front of my DH (now sadly deceased) and would not wish to share a lavatory with any man, no matter how pleasant they were. For my own, very valid reasons, I wish to have privacy when performing intimate tasks. If you feel differently, fine, but don't deny the rest of us the right to privacy, and yes, dignity. Neither do I want to see men urinating, or have urine on toilet seats.

I think those women who are happy to only have gender neutral toilets may not have been in the situation of having to take an infant in a push chair into the loo with you.

Because if you have, you will also know ‘gender neutral’ toilets don’t fit the push chair any better than a standard cublicle. As I spent 18 months having to go to toilets leaving doors open and dealing with flooding periods etc, no! Actually I am definitely not ok with ‘only gender neutral’ options.

And neither would my mother have been when there also wasn’t any disabled toilet options and we had to jam a wheelchair in the door helping her on and off the toilet.

And of course ‘cultural’ reasons include women from religious backgrounds that need female only spaces.

Agreed. I'm a woman and I don't care. I often feel people on here think they are speaking for "all women" and that is not the case.

If you cannot see that it is true also that YOU cannot speak for all women there might be a disconnect in logic here.

No one can speak for ALL women. But there are plenty of reasons why female single sex toilets are needed and this thread is full of them.

So, then needs have to be balanced. If a group of females are having to exclude themselves from that place because their needs have been overridden by someone stating ‘I don’t mind so no one else minds’, you are ok with that? Because you have the moral superiority in your mind, you think?

I find those who are ‘I don’t have a problem with it’ either have limited life experience or live in a place (and never leave it) where there are specialized toilets as well. For parents, for disabled (and not the same toilet that disabled people have to wait for 5-10 minutes for a large family to finish their needs to get access).

They also must live in a place where either people with restricted religious needs go somewhere else if the hand washing facility is not included in the cubicle but shared outside like many ‘unisex’ toilets.

There are many situations even ‘gender neutral’ cubicles simply don’t work.

But yes, I have been in similar toilets where you have to walk past males at a urinal to get to a cubicle in a ‘gender neutral’ toilet. They do exist. Maybe those stating they don’t should get out more.

@Kimilybob

So, just out of interest, what makes your dignity, respect and comfort more important than mine, so much so that you cant use unisex loos.....nonesense. No signs are being taken from doors and labelled as any sex. Do please enlighten me of all the places this has occured as ive never seen this happen. Again this is not what is meant by unisex loos. If it were what kind of pervy women would go into the mens urinals looking at willys and not the cubicle section. Some people really arnt looking at this in reality or with any rationality.

Im not not going to engage after this….im not 100% sure you can read (or something else 🤔)

I have no problem with individual toilet cubicles with their own wash basin

However, signs ARE being taken off the doors and labeled multi sex

I agree with you that this is not supposed to be how multi sex works

But it is happening and rather than coming up with some interesting arguments you are just denying that its ever happened and that all the women who have seen this and been in multi sex loos are lying or stupid

We are not the ones who are lying or stupid…

Although i would agree that there are stupid lying people on this thread

Hardly a surprise.

I won't use anywhere that doesn't provide separate ladies loos. Restaurants, shops, cinemas. It's not good enough and they won't get my custom until they make proper provision.

Agreed. I'm a woman and I don't care. I often feel people on here think they are speaking for "all women" and that is not the case

Maybe you can answer strawberry how are the queues shorter if males and females are sharing the once female only loos

We are not the ones who are lying or stupid…

No Rufus we are not.

We are also not the ones who look only at whether the toilet configuration suits our own needs as we have limited experiences and other’s situations simply don’t register and declare they are good for ‘all’!

On a site called ‘mumsnet’! Of all places.

Is it always men leading these projects?

Complain complain complain!! And not just on public forums. The only way to get the message over is to flood (!) every organisation that thinks it's ok with letters and emails preferably addressed to the CEO or MD or whatever they call themselves these days. It seems to me that decision makers live in a world of their own and unless or until it becomes uncomfortably clear they will assume no one minds.

And actually ive been in ‘proper’ multi sex loos and I didn’t care (I would not be very happy in the types of toilet the theatre has, my menfolk would be mortified)

But I understand completely that other women care for a multitude of reasons and thats who am i going to stand with…probably in a queue but thats ok too.

Who gets six pages in, commenting on an article that they haven’t even read? You’d have to be the thickest human living, or rhyme with doll.

Great posts @LunaLights

I feel a particular poster is just putting their fingers in their ears and shouting 'lalala not happening! Will never happen!'. Evidence, both in the form of linked articles and personal anecdotal evidence is simply being ignored.

@Flickflak

I’m GC to the hilt but don’t mind gender neutral toilets if that’s exactly what they are. Having to walk past urinals is not gender neutral. Gender neutral is floor to ceiling cubicles with sinks inside.

This is kind of the set up in the school where I work, except there are two rows of cubicles facing each other, and the ones on the left are for boys and right for girls (with period bins).

The girls all ask to go to the loo during lesson time. I asked why they didn't go at break and they all tell me there is no privacy so they would rather go during lessons when there is no one else around.... That's good for education, isn't it!?

I also once had to use a student loo during break because the staff loo was in use. I was on my period - I ripped open the packaging on my sanitary pad and there was a huge din, a load of boys, more than one or two, banging on the door of my cubicle. I emerged and these boys ran off - they didn't expect to see a teacher coming out. The girls waiting told me that lots of boys listen at the doors of the cubicles to hear when girls are on their period by opening packaging then thump and yell on the door.

Oh yes, very progressive. Great for girls education.

I was speaking to my 24-year-old niece about this. “Awwww,” she said, “What’s the problem? I love putting on make-up with my gay friends in nightclubs.”

“Right,” says I. “So you need the loo when you’re out and about - let’s say in an airport very early in the morning. There’s not a soul around and the toilets are down a corridor. They are gender neutral and there are urinals and a lone man comes in. You ok with this?” She didn’t answer.

And keeps using unisex when they mean mixed sex. These are definitions in building regulations and health and safety regulations not something I just made up. Someone did post a link on another thread but I can't remember what is was and I am kicking myself for not saving it.

FWIW, I've just asked my adult son who has ASD if he would like these sorts of toilets. He has said a resounding 'no'. He has no wish to urinate when women are around. Is that enough for those who think it's OK??

Women’s access and ability to participate in activities outside of the home was greatly limited by lack of access to toilet facilities.

So again.. I ask what is the end goal of this? Women getting back in the home? Women not being able to go far from home to do activities and socialise?

We are seeing things go backwards for women and sometimes they are so small and insidious we miss them.

If a woman cannot see to her toilet needs safely she will not go out. If a woman is afraid of strange men walking into the toilet with her and her children she will not go out.

So.. women are being limited yet again. It’s not about “accessibility for non binary or trans”. It’s about limiting women yet again.

There is no reason to turn women’s toilets into gender neutral (aka men can use them). Why not create an extra toilet for those who are trans and non binary?

People can continue to pretend like this is done in the spirit of “inclusivity”, if they like. But it’s always been about giving men more unrestrained, unrestricted access to women and limiting womens ability to move freely and have any privacy from men.

Who on earth thinks men need to be in the toilet with women? They don’t mean anything good for women at all if they think this is ok.

Of course that's what it's about. Trabs identifying females and non binary females are also the ones who's needs aren't being met even if they think other wise.

It shows the lies because it shows the males are quite happy to invite the same men who would apparently beat them up if they used the mens into spaces with them.

Its all just about creating the stereotypes needed to be trans in the first place.

And erase women from participating in life

It’s a win for the bloody minded and no one else. A group on such a high horse moral crusade they don’t notice who’s being trampled over.

@Kimilybob

There are no disabilities or cultural reasons for single sex loos. Its through this nonsense of continually breaking down the levels in which people differ that this whole mess is here in the first place. I wish people would see that

there is a whole, fairly recent, UN report on why single sex spaces are important for women and girls.

but actually really, we don't need UN to write a report, its bleeding obvious

Sarah Vine's column in the DM today sheds more light on this. Some great comments.

@Kimilybob

I am disabled and I very much want female only toilets for my privacy and dignity

there are many cultures where men and women don't mix freely and it would be unthinkable for a woman/girl to go into a toilet where men are urinated. there are going to be alot of girls that wouldn't dare and would rather retain urine. I get cystitis just thinking about this. but it's resolved is it because @kimilybob says they don't have any cultural reason to need female only toilets. that's really very arrogant and also pretty xenophobic

@MarshmallowSwede

Women’s access and ability to participate in activities outside of the home was greatly limited by lack of access to toilet facilities.

So again.. I ask what is the end goal of this? Women getting back in the home? Women not being able to go far from home to do activities and socialise?

We are seeing things go backwards for women and sometimes they are so small and insidious we miss them.

If a woman cannot see to her toilet needs safely she will not go out. If a woman is afraid of strange men walking into the toilet with her and her children she will not go out.

So.. women are being limited yet again. It’s not about “accessibility for non binary or trans”. It’s about limiting women yet again.

There is no reason to turn women’s toilets into gender neutral (aka men can use them). Why not create an extra toilet for those who are trans and non binary?

People can continue to pretend like this is done in the spirit of “inclusivity”, if they like. But it’s always been about giving men more unrestrained, unrestricted access to women and limiting womens ability to move freely and have any privacy from men.

Who on earth thinks men need to be in the toilet with women? They don’t mean anything good for women at all if they think this is ok.

Exactly. Can any of the defenders of mixed sex loos actually point to any benefit to women? If ‘I don’t care so other people shouldn’t care either’ is about as positive as it gets, then WHY would any sane woman agree to a change in policy/ set up that has NO actual benefit (and a long list of disadvantages)?