Disagreement with husband about trans debate

[HermioneKipper]

Had people around for dinner and somehow got on to the topic of women’s spaces, being gender critical, the current debate around JKR.

After they left was discussing further with my husband and it turns out he thinks my views are extreme and I’ve “gone too far.”

He agrees that trans women who haven’t had surgery have no place in women’s spaces but thinks that if they’ve had gender reassignment surgery then they should be allowed into women’s spaces and called women.

I disagree with this and think that people cannot change sex and no male born people should be allowed into women’s spaces under any circumstances.

He said he thinks I’m too radical and shouldn’t think this way about a marginalised group 😡

I can’t believe we disagree so fundamentally on this and I’m so upset about it.

They're not in his space so he doesn't really get it.

Agree to disagree and move on with your life.

Ask him how one is supposed to know which have had surgery and which haven't?

Does he plan to check their genitals before they’re admitted to women’s spaces? Where does he stand on men’s crimes being recorded as by women because of self-ID? On prizes meant to rectify women’s marginalisation in certain fields being open to men with ‘feelings’?

I just hate that we fundamentally disagree on something so important.

We’ve always been very much on the same page politically/ideologically etc. And I’m upset that he thinks so little of me that he would think I could ever be bigoted about anything.

I’ve had a few glasses of wine so I could be making a meal out of it but I’m genuinely really upset

@unwashedanddazed

Ask him how one is supposed to know which have had surgery and which haven't?

Well exactly. Apparently we have to trust them given all the steps they’ve taken. And that they’re not a threat to women given they’ve had their penises removed.

He agreed that self id isn’t right however.

Like many men, he hasn't a fucking clue.

Very easy for him to say when it doesn't actually impact him at all. It's not up to him to decide who gets to access women's single sex spaces.

@Nathlash

Does he plan to check their genitals before they’re admitted to women’s spaces? Where does he stand on men’s crimes being recorded as by women because of self-ID? On prizes meant to rectify women’s marginalisation in certain fields being open to men with ‘feelings’?

He agreed on the crimes issues and how they’re recorded.

Agreed that transwomen should never compete in women’s sports regardless of surgery

If he agrees that selfID is wrong, what ID is right (a wig?)?
Who will police the women's loos, hospital wards, prisons etc. to ensure the male appendage has been chopped off?

I think he realises that logistically this would be impossible but thinks on principle that they should be considered women/allowed into some spaces if they’ve had full surgery - ie no penis

Ask him if this means that's he's pigeonholing you - his own wife - as a ladybrained individual. Does he realize this sort of neurosexist bs not too long ago was used to keep women - not *women - out of higher education/away from the ballot box. Ask him why you should accept having your own identity mansplained to by him on behalf of other males.

Is he expecting you to check men that are dressed as women to see if they do or do not have a penis, as they enter the loos, or will he help with that?

If he believes post operative TWAW then would he have a sexual relationship with one? (If you and he separated). My brother thinks TWAW, apparently "getting your cock chopped off and turned into a fanny means you've literally changed sex". But when I asked if he'd sleep with one he said "ewww. I'm not a freak and I'm not gay"

@HermioneKipper

I think he realises that logistically this would be impossible but thinks on principle that they should be considered women/allowed into some spaces if they’ve had full surgery - ie no penis

So he'd happily shag them then? Seeing as they're women? Otherwise, he's asking you to give up your rights whilst he pays only lip service.

"He said he thinks I’m too radical and shouldn’t think this way about a marginalised group 😡"
And there's the problem - your husband is gullible. He actually believes that a group which has every political party dancing to its tune, a group which has big businesses handing over single-sex changing rooms to them as soon as they ask (and often without having to ask), a group that police forces up and down the country jump to defend from hurty feelz - your gullible-as-fuck husband believes such a group can be described as 'marginalised'? My arse.

Most TW keep their penis and expect lesbians to accept full heterosexual sex as 'women' can have a penis now...if they say no to TW they are labelled bigots.
Does your DH think that's fair?

No he doesn’t @Enough4me. I’ve said that he thinks that only fully transitioned TW should be considered women already.

Does your DH realise that the number of males who actually have their penis removed is only a tiny percentage of those who claim to be women?

Your DH is an arsehole who gives no shits about female safety because fobbing these males off into female only spaces has no effect on him whatsoever, whilst earning him special virtue signalling points.

It also means HE won't have to deal with them making HIM feel uncomfortable by being in mens' single sex spaces.

Don't you just love men who think it's their place to tell women what rights we should and shouldn't have?

@WhereYouLeftIt I agree with you. I will have another discussion with him soon. I’m hoping he just hasn’t fully understood all the issues at play

I think he’s still at the “be kind” stage which is where I was a while ago before I understood just how insidious things were getting

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Does your DH realise that the number of males who actually have their penis removed is only a tiny percentage of those who claim to be women?

Your DH is an arsehole who gives no shits about female safety because fobbing these males off into female only spaces has no effect on him whatsoever, whilst earning him special virtue signalling points.

It also means HE won't have to deal with them making HIM feel uncomfortable by being in mens' single sex spaces.

I don’t think it would make him uncomfortable. He isn’t that sort of man.

He seems to genuinely think that a de-penised man would pose absolutely no threat to women.

I hope he just doesn’t fully understand the issues

And yes he does understand how few actually do have their penis removed. But that those who have taken such drastic action deserve to be considered women.

I still disagree

He seems to genuinely think that a de-penised man would pose absolutely no threat to women

Don't worry women, they can't rape you now so what's your problem eh? Ffs.

I don't know if your disagreement is as fundamental as all that. He agrees with you about all but a tiny number in terms of policy, and he agrees that people don't really change sex.

His feeling may be that back when numbers of fully transitioned males were tiny, this wasn't really much of an issue because it so very rarely came up, it really wasn't even on the radar in the vast majority of places. As far as that goes, it's not untrue - it mostly was a non-issue because most people went through their whole lives without encountering it.

I think you can disagree on something at that level without it representing a significant difference in values or beliefs.

The other thing is, lots of people change their views on this over time, and it's an area where there is a lot happening. For many of us, had you asked us five or ten years ago we'd have said something different than we would now.