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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Are you going to come out on Gender Critical Coming Out Day 19 December?

175 replies

MacNTosh · 09/11/2021 15:24

I’ve just read Glinner’s latest email about CG coming out day planned for 19th December. I think it’s a fantastic idea, I really want to do it, but I’m scared. Partly due to online backlash and partly because I don’t want to cause a rift with my dcs. What about everyone?

gendercriticalcomingoutday.org/

OP posts:
ilovegreen · 12/11/2021 20:45

I am out to friends already - work doesn’t care so maybe this doesn’t apply to me so much - but I can’t help feeling that it comes across as a bit combative. The opposite of the golden bridge approach, and might hinder rather than help… but I could be wrong. I agree with many PP on both view points! So I’m on the fence.

Bosky · 13/11/2021 13:04

@NecessaryScene

There was a previous "coming out" wave at the end of 2019, when Emma Hilton (FondOfBeetles) and others went public for the first time.

twitter.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1458173829398814721

I think that did help the whole movement step up a gear.

Maya Forstater has previously talked about "levelling up" at key moments:

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1270810543419527168

That "levelling up" concept is great, I think.

Thank you @necessaryscene ! I hadn’t seen that thread of Maya’s before - excellent!

Maya’s ideas seem to be much closer to what is being proposed for Dec 19th, well worth a read.

The key things are:

1) Stay safe
2) Think of something that would work for you to make a difference, however small, while staying safe.

Helen Joyce talked about just this towards the end of her interview for “Liberal Voice for Women” this week:

An Evening with Helen Joyce

(Link to 1hr 17mins 17sec into video)

m.youtube.com/watch?v=FDRFsm9UPTE&t=77m17s
BettyFilous · 13/11/2021 14:05

I had a conversation about Stonewall and this stuff with a long-standing gay male friend recently. Interestingly, he is someone who I think a lot of and I always challenged myself with ‘what would X say?’ in my early forays into this debate. My early contributions were were exceptionally carefully worded because of that. It turns out he is equally dismayed by Stonewall’s behavior and the impact of gender ideology on women but doesn’t feel safe to raise his concerns at work (Stonewalled employer) despite being senior and a confidently out gay man for decades. He messaged me afterwards to say what a relief it was to have someone to talk to about it. I’m not sure about a mass coming out but I think starting the conversation with friends and family is important. Not everyone has found people they can discuss their concerns with and they feel isolated and afraid of how this is playing out.

HollywoodTease · 13/11/2021 16:14

Nah, nothing to come out as. I've always been clear on my views and happy to discuss if anyone asks.

Most of my friends (including several trans ones) agree with me for the most part. Some don't, and I try to disagree respectfully. I've lost a trans friend over my opinions, but they were a very troubled person anyway and I fear they are not doing great mentally so hey ho.

Take me or leave me, you won't change me without a coherent and logical argument. So far I've not seen one.

Journeyofthedragons · 13/11/2021 18:47

Does anyone know if Karen Actually is still involved in this?

twitter.com/karen_actually/status/1459528997331775495?t=emJ27BgCadqyeT2pFLbDWQ&s=19

PeriChristmas · 13/11/2021 19:20

You know what? Fuck it! Yes I am! 💚💚💚💜💜💜🤍🤍🤍🦕🦕🦕🦖🦖🦖

JoodyBlue · 13/11/2021 19:47

I've posted to FB about JKR, BBC, Keira, Kathleen, Jo, Stephanie, Helen and Nolan. Always factual and without emotion, but with curiosity. I admire a great deal of Posie's courage, but am slightly wary of her alliances. This is all probably going back a few years. In the early days 6 or so of my friend group liked and commented. These days it is down to 2. But I haven't lost friends.

I am sometimes concerned for a friend who I think doesn't have so much resilience and support, but does support me. It is where I think we need to be very careful with social media, and understand what we are asking of people. I have gone so far as to PM to ask her to "unlike" a post. Not because I didn't stand by it, but because I worried for her.

I've written to school, my MP, sent gifts of Helen's book, and contributed to crowd funders.

I am sometimes quite wary of new friend requests online from people in my work life/social circle who might not know me from old and for whom I don't have the currency value of long history about free discussion, minority support credentials etc.

But I think on the whole, I am not a person who could live with myself if I ignored these issues. I left my job when the imposition of "our values" became too much. But I had secondary skills which I could use in self employment and no mortgage. That is a priviledged position which I accept fully.

I kind of think that my own speaking out on FB is a support for those who can't. A few people do say as much. And of course, it is only to friends and never public. I am astonished at those who prior to this onslaught promoted themselves as "influencers" and are now stonily silent. I know it is hard to stand up and be counted, but the fact that so few do, IS the issue.

Those who have stood up and articulated GC arguments are heroic in my eyes. I haven't heard any sound arguments pro gender identity, except "be kind" and "people have a feeling". I would like to. There is a trans woman who lives in my village who is sometimes dressed as a man and sometimes in women's clothes. I would love to hear that person's story one to one and try to understand. Certainly I want nothing but good in life for them.

The thing that really gets to me, is by staying silent, we are allowing the silencing of our daughters. Maybe I wouldn't care so much for myself.

TinselAngel · 13/11/2021 19:53

[quote Journeyofthedragons]Does anyone know if Karen Actually is still involved in this?

twitter.com/karen_actually/status/1459528997331775495?t=emJ27BgCadqyeT2pFLbDWQ&s=19[/quote]
I think that thread makes her position quite clear.

I've had a similar experience to her of being aggressively responded to on Twitter and then blocked by one of the organisers, for politely raising safety concerns.

CrumpetShaw · 13/11/2021 20:31

A "coming out day" makes it sound like admitting a radical view, when its not. I'm honest about what I think face to face with anyone if it comes up, and sometimes I bring it up. I'm wary of getting into it on social media because things can be taken the wrong way and I am the sort that will fret about bad feeling online - I manage real life better! I think if this day is useful for some then fine, but noone should feel pressured.

Journeyofthedragons · 13/11/2021 20:39

I think that thread makes her position quite clear.

I've had a similar experience to her of being aggressively responded to on Twitter and then blocked by one of the organisers, for politely raising safety concerns.

It's weird, her account has been suspended now.

Just another example of Twitter silencing women Angry

TinselAngel · 13/11/2021 20:40

It looks like Karen has been suspended from Twitter in the middle of talking about how she's left the campaign and how the men involved in it treated her.

TinselAngel · 13/11/2021 20:40

Cross post!

reallyisthisallthereis · 13/11/2021 20:43

@NowtSalamander

No. I’ve been actively GC for a decade and peaked loads of my friends but I’m strictly anonymous. I teach masses of trans kids and they think terfs are witches. In education at the moment more and more power is being given to students’ voices on all kids of id pol issues and until schools start realising this is crazy I’m not GC anywhere on social media that can get out to kids. I can’t lose my job.

This for me too
PeriChristmas · 13/11/2021 20:43

@Journeyofthedragons

I think that thread makes her position quite clear.

I've had a similar experience to her of being aggressively responded to on Twitter and then blocked by one of the organisers, for politely raising safety concerns.

It's weird, her account has been suspended now.

Just another example of Twitter silencing women Angry

Right?!
PeriChristmas · 13/11/2021 20:46

@JoodyBlue your points are all so so valid. But it infuriates me that this is the case.,

The thing that really gets to me, is by staying silent, we are allowing the silencing of our daughters. Maybe I wouldn't care so much for myself.

Absolutely! 100% 🤍🦕💜💚👏💜🦖🤍🤍🦕🦖💜👏

Journeyofthedragons · 13/11/2021 20:56

@TinselAngel

It looks like Karen has been suspended from Twitter in the middle of talking about how she's left the campaign and how the men involved in it treated her.

She must have been reported by the men who she was referencing.
TinselAngel · 13/11/2021 20:57

That would seem likely. Doesn't say much about their support for women.

Journeyofthedragons · 13/11/2021 20:57

Right?!

I'm sick of it @PeriChristmas

Journeyofthedragons · 13/11/2021 21:00

@TinselAngel

That would seem likely. Doesn't say much about their support for women.

She was talking about her concerns for the safety of women who come out as GC on this day (much like on this post) last I saw.

I thought she was one of the organisers. Confused
YawningAngel · 14/11/2021 00:40

Happy to ring my GC bell on 19/11. Sadly, nothing will change. I work in a blue collar situation, with realists.

TinselAngel · 14/11/2021 10:03

There's a screen shot of Karen's thread here:

https://twitter.com/kellywhitee_2/status/1459638243469758465?s=21

EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn · 14/11/2021 10:14

Not a Glinner fan, and I’m out pretty much everywhere. But I have a common name which makes me very hard to find on social, and an employer who’s open to staff having different opinions.

I still thought long & hard before using my real name on Twitter though. If I thought being openly GC would risk me my job, I’d still be anonymous.

Thelnebriati · 14/11/2021 10:39

I tried to archive that Twitter post but unfortunately its one large image and it didn't get the whole thing. Its saved enough that you can get the gist.

Journeyofthedragons · 14/11/2021 10:41

@TinselAngel

There's a screen shot of Karen's thread here:

[[https://twitter.com/kelly]]whitee_2/status/1459638243469758465?s=21

I saw this one too this morning, two of the men who were bullying her for speaking up for women's safety were Graham Linehan and Arty Morty from "The Mess We're In" podcast apparently.

These man disgust me for not listening to women about their safety concerns and to get her account suspended is just plain awful.
Are you going to come out on Gender Critical Coming Out Day 19 December?
Journeyofthedragons · 14/11/2021 10:42

@Thelnebriati

I tried to archive that Twitter post but unfortunately its one large image and it didn't get the whole thing. Its saved enough that you can get the gist.

Here's her original eight post tweet.
Are you going to come out on Gender Critical Coming Out Day 19 December?
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