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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Are you going to come out on Gender Critical Coming Out Day 19 December?

175 replies

MacNTosh · 09/11/2021 15:24

I’ve just read Glinner’s latest email about CG coming out day planned for 19th December. I think it’s a fantastic idea, I really want to do it, but I’m scared. Partly due to online backlash and partly because I don’t want to cause a rift with my dcs. What about everyone?

gendercriticalcomingoutday.org/

OP posts:
JoodyBlue · 09/11/2021 20:39

Didn't Maya's case mean that no-one COULD lose their job over this?

ValancyRedfern · 09/11/2021 20:41

I am out and proud already. Join me. It gets less scary every time you open your mouth!

rabbitwoman · 09/11/2021 20:44

@JoodyBlue

Didn't Maya's case mean that no-one COULD lose their job over this?

I am certain it does - although I am told repeatedly that it does not mean what I think it means and you might be able to THINK it but the judgement explicitly says you still can't SAY it....

...... And it's amazing how many people who tell me this on twitter are skso lawyers or training in law 🤔🤔🤔
Motorina · 09/11/2021 20:44

@JoodyBlue

Didn't Maya's case mean that no-one COULD lose their job over this?

Well, in theory.

If you’re willing to take it to an employment tribunal.

If you’re not in a profession where your views might be considered damaging the your fitness to practice.

I can’t risk it. I suspect very few in healthcare could.
Brusca · 09/11/2021 21:11

@JoodyBlue

Didn't Maya's case mean that no-one COULD lose their job over this?

No.

It may prove useful in fighting an unfair dismissal case where you've been dismissed for 'GC' views, but it won't necessarily stop you losing your job in the first place.

Now that's fine if you have savings, or a wealthy spouse/supporter, or skills you can use in a different field, but for most women, it's not enough.

Lots of things are unlawful but they're done every day anyway.
Pinkfairylights · 09/11/2021 21:34

I don't think I will.

My job is already precarious and my employer is firmly TWAW.

Blueskip · 09/11/2021 21:43

@Blessex

Isn’t it now a protected belief so won’t affect anyone’s livelihoods?

Tell that to Professor Stock
ErrolTheDragon · 09/11/2021 22:17

[quote Dinosaurhearmeroar]@SweetPetrichor have I misunderstood or did you mean to say you would unfollow anyone who is gc despite you being this too?[/quote]
I don't think they're remotely GC.

Journeyofthedragons · 10/11/2021 00:48

@TinselAngel

There's no detail about who is behind it on the website, which is slightly concerning.

I think it's Graham Lineham, James HumanGayMale, Karen Actually, Jen Baker and Helen Staniland who are organising this.
Wanderingstars4238 · 10/11/2021 01:08

I probably won't come out to the whole world, but will definitely make sure to mention it to somebody. What a great idea.

MrsCardone · 10/11/2021 01:12

Is there a badge or something? I would like to wear something to signify my GC-ness and also to identify other GC people.

MrsCardone · 10/11/2021 01:32

I found some badges! Hope it's OK to post the link.

wildwomynworkshop.com/category-product/gender-critical/

KohlaParasaurus · 10/11/2021 02:12

I'm out already. If the December 19th idea catches on and it seems appropriate to become involved I'll make some sort of gesture in support.

NoNotMeNoSiree · 10/11/2021 02:16

I'm not sure where to start, I've not heard of this before this thread!

  • If you're so sure your views are "right" , why the need to orchestrate a "coming out" day

  • Also isn't it a bit ick (for want of a better word!) to call it a coming out day when LGBT use that phrase, people who don't agree with all or some of those letter co-opt it for themselves?
    Seems a bit DARVO'ey to me
MistandMud · 10/11/2021 07:16

@NoNotMeNoSiree

I'm not sure where to start, I've not heard of this before this thread!

- If you're so sure your views are "right" , why the need to orchestrate a "coming out" day

- Also isn't it a bit ick (for want of a better word!) to call it a coming out day when LGBT use that phrase, people who don't agree with all or some of those letter co-opt it for themselves?
Seems a bit DARVO'ey to me

Well, I think quite a few people on here have already done the coming out as L or B.

And anything that gets you shouted at by not-listening students, your own teenagers and random beardy blokes does take a bit of courage.
Shedbuilder · 10/11/2021 08:54

I've been out and vocal for years. I've sent letters and written articles in my own name that are out there on the internet. I've lost half my friends but in retrospect that's only opened up space and energy for new people to come into my life — people with whom I share values.

You don't have to come out all guns blazing. You only have to say 'I can't believe in all this gender stuff' with a shrug and walk away. Others will follow you. My partner and I and a GC friend were having coffee on a cafe terrace last Thursday and quietly discussing Helen Joyce's book and what had happened to DocStock. We could see that the women on the next table were listening in and braced ourselves for an attack, but they smiled and gave us the thumbs-up.

Shedbuilder · 10/11/2021 08:59

@NoNotMeNoSiree

I'm not sure where to start, I've not heard of this before this thread!

- If you're so sure your views are "right" , why the need to orchestrate a "coming out" day

- Also isn't it a bit ick (for want of a better word!) to call it a coming out day when LGBT use that phrase, people who don't agree with all or some of those letter co-opt it for themselves?
Seems a bit DARVO'ey to me

I'm a lesbian and it doesn't make me or the other members of the LGB Alliance feel 'sick' to have straight people coming out on this issue.

We're right on this issue. We have come to a rational, thought-through, arguable conclusion — unlike the TRAs who don't want to debate the issues because they know they don't stand up. You will have noticed what a hard time some women have had from bullies and gaslights when they state their position so doing it together is easier.

I think there's only one person playing the DARVO game here, and it's not us.
Shedbuilder · 10/11/2021 09:01

I hate autocorrect:
'ick'
'gaslighters'

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/11/2021 10:07

- If you're so sure your views are "right" , why the need to orchestrate a "coming out" day

What a bizarre thing to say Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 10/11/2021 10:44

I'm not overly convince by this idea tbh. My direct family know my views - DH pretty much shares them, DD did before she went to uni (we've not had an explicit discussion since so I don't know to what extent her experiences there may have altered her views but she won't be back home for Xmas by the 19th).
I don't think there's any reasonable way to bring this up at work - it just doesn't arise with the team I work with. Some of HR in the U.K. are using pronouns and have signed us up to stonewall this year but I'm not seeing anything directly relating to the T agenda as a result. I wfh so no scope for subtle signalling via ribbons etc.

So... my concern then is that if lots of other people similarly can't realistically participate, it might be a damp squib which would give the impression that it's a minority, poorly supported issue.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/11/2021 10:53

That's a good point, Errol.

Pinkfairylights · 10/11/2021 11:08

My family know my views, which is why my transman niece won't speak to me. I'm quietly GC at work but can't push it because the organisation is Stonewalled. I'm GC on Facebook which has cost me friends.

HPFA · 10/11/2021 12:11

I don't think this is a good idea at all. Following reasons:

  1. As other people have said there are many good people who can't come out - it's unfair to ask people to risk their jobs and their family relationships.

  2. I honestly think it's an idea ripe for mockery - we are just beginning to reach people who've been on the fence and/or avoiding the issue and I suspect to many of them this is just going to make us look like a bunch of nutters.

  3. We rightly criticise the "queers" who have appropriated the coming out experience of gay people. Wouldn't we be doing the same thing?

  4. Publically labelling yourself to work colleagues as "gender critical" -assuming it's safe to do so - might not be the most effective way of achieving change. For instance part of my role in my job involves choosing books - I might want to point to a specific book and say -"are we a bit concerned that when it says "sometimes doctors mistake a girl for a boy" - that that might really worry children to think the doctor might have mistaken their sex" . It's better to make my colleagues look at that as a specific point rather than them thinking "Oh, here's HPFA on her hobby horse again."
HPFA · 10/11/2021 12:13

Oops - point 1 should have read "many good reasons why people can't come out" - not sure what happened there!

purpleboy · 10/11/2021 13:17

I'm already out so wouldn't be doing anything different

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