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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Are you going to come out on Gender Critical Coming Out Day 19 December?

175 replies

MacNTosh · 09/11/2021 15:24

I’ve just read Glinner’s latest email about CG coming out day planned for 19th December. I think it’s a fantastic idea, I really want to do it, but I’m scared. Partly due to online backlash and partly because I don’t want to cause a rift with my dcs. What about everyone?

gendercriticalcomingoutday.org/

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 14/11/2021 10:44

Yes but that image is so small its not readable, which is why I didnt archive it - I have an idea and will try later. Its too important to lose.

Journeyofthedragons · 14/11/2021 10:50

@Thelnebriati

Yes but that image is so small its not readable, which is why I didnt archive it - I have an idea and will try later. Its too important to lose.

Oh yeah, doh! 🤪

I've split it into two, hopefully this will work.
Are you going to come out on Gender Critical Coming Out Day 19 December?
Are you going to come out on Gender Critical Coming Out Day 19 December?
Thelnebriati · 14/11/2021 13:22

OK, IDK if this will post but I've archived it at Archive dot MD as well;

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1459840912234848257.html

tootyfruitypickle · 15/11/2021 22:20

I came out a little at work last week. I've just had enough. But also terrified of losing my job as a LP. But what will be will be. I can't pretend anymore it's just so awful what's going on.

Truthlikeness · 15/11/2021 22:43

My personal hill to die on revealed itself today. The women's sport I've participated in for thirty years asked for our opinion on including transgender players.

So far everyone in the team has enthusiastically said yes. I've discussed privately with our (male) coach who is being supportive about my opinion and have provided him with some of the recent guidance documents (the Sport England one is excellent, but also World Rugby and Emma Hilton's work).

We'll have to see where it goes from here. I'm prepared to stand by my opinion publicly in the team, because I think it is vitally important people understand the issues and aren't just 'being kind', but my position could get very difficult because it's such a polarising issue.

ScreamingBeans · 15/11/2021 23:54

I'm already out.

Have been for years.

No one minds.

But I don't live in a posh area and I don't work in the media. So like the majority in other words.

ilovegreen · 16/11/2021 20:02

I’m surprised the team-mates are all for it @Truthlikeness Sad. Can you say what sport is it? Are they all youngsters? Are any of them non-binary? I played hockey until recently and it never came up at all. There is mixed hockey though, so we know what it is like playing with both sexes.

Truthlikeness · 17/11/2021 07:47

It's football. No trans/NB players. They're in their twenties and early thirties. The 'inclusion/be kind'' ethos is strong. To be honest - I would probably have said the same until a couple of years ago. I agree though - I think they don't fully appreciate the physical differences between men and women. When women do play football with men it's social football and the men hold back. It's demoralising enough playing much better female players but with even one or two males on the team it would make a mockery of the game.

Interestingly - despite everyone else publicly being in favour - the coach sent my response to the league. I wrote a page or two quoting the Sport England Guidance (among other pieces of research) that you cannot balance inclusion, safety and fairness. Some men do appreciate better than women how harmful it is to include males in female sport. They know how much stronger they are.

oldwomanwhoruns · 17/11/2021 08:10

That's good news & well done to you, @Truthlikeness!
Sport was my top-of-the-mountain moment too (is the actual word still on the banned list??)
Sport is my go-to issue when discussing with the uninitiated Smile

MistandMud · 17/11/2021 13:29

@Truthlikeness

It's football. No trans/NB players. They're in their twenties and early thirties. The 'inclusion/be kind'' ethos is strong. To be honest - I would probably have said the same until a couple of years ago. I agree though - I think they don't fully appreciate the physical differences between men and women. When women do play football with men it's social football and the men hold back. It's demoralising enough playing much better female players but with even one or two males on the team it would make a mockery of the game.

Interestingly - despite everyone else publicly being in favour - the coach sent my response to the league. I wrote a page or two quoting the Sport England Guidance (among other pieces of research) that you cannot balance inclusion, safety and fairness. Some men do appreciate better than women how harmful it is to include males in female sport. They know how much stronger they are.

Our local boys' team includes a transgirl. That seems fine, and inclusive, and fair.
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 05/12/2021 17:05

I'm not sure about this - we're not all quiet because we are scared.

I've done well asking the difficult questions face to face in my workplace and networks, and it would be a waste of my time to field hassle from keyboard warriors.

I've almost persuaded them to leave Stonewall, I don't want to mess that up by being "problematic" online.

I want to be encouraging of people who are going to jump but, not all of us are quiet because of fear - sometimes it's tactical.

Thelastwomanonearth · 05/12/2021 17:45

Even Graham's admitting that this isn't really safe for woman to do right now and it's probably best to leave until next year which is what I'll be doing.

Thelastwomanonearth · 05/12/2021 17:47

With the caveat that he no longer supports AGP men.

Riverlee · 05/12/2021 17:51

Can someone explain to me what a ‘Gender Critical Coming Out’ day actually means/involves (apologies if it’s already been explained - in middle of cooking roast dinner and glanced at nn) - in plain English? Coming out usually means you’re going to announce you are gay or lesbian. I’m confused.

ArtemesiaK · 05/12/2021 18:01

I'm out on my (private) Facebook (and had to get rid of a couple of friends who were constantly posting "gender trumps sex" crap) and have thought of coming out on my online shop, which I could still do, I suppose, because very few people visit it! I would still be nervous about people getting my address through buying. I will do some tentative things, like putting my support for J K Rowling in my profile and perhaps buy some badges...perhaps some stickering. I can well understand women being reluctant to come out at work or other public situations....

Bosky · 05/12/2021 18:14

@Riverlee

Can someone explain to me what a ‘Gender Critical Coming Out’ day actually means/involves (apologies if it’s already been explained - in middle of cooking roast dinner and glanced at nn) - in plain English? Coming out usually means you’re going to announce you are gay or lesbian. I’m confused.

What is Gender Critical Coming Out Day?

Gender Critical Coming Out Day is an idea that a lot of people have talked about for a while. It’s a day to let others know you support the reality of biological sex, and that you are against an ideology that says gender identity can replace sex, in whatever way works for you. But it doesn’t mean you have to make any big announcements. There are lots of ways to “come out”.

Some people are able to be very open, while others might only be able to do something subtle, but together our collective actions all add up. So it’s important you only do what is safe and right for you. You might use a different term to describe your views, eg gender atheist, or no label at all. So, the label isn’t the important thing, and there’s no right or wrong way to engage in the issue; we all take different approaches.

The point of a single day focusing on “coming out” as gender critical isn’t to get into the detail of the arguments around the issue of gender identity ideology. It’s simply to show that there are others out there, women and men, who want to ask questions and be allowed to talk about the issue; to connect with people who might not realise you think the same as they do; to open the door to the issue for people who aren’t aware of it at all. It’s a chance to find safety in numbers as we all “come out” together.

We’ll be adding more info and links as we get nearer to the day, so keep checking back here. In the meantime, there’s some discussion about what the day is, and what it’s not, in the video below:



What can you do?

Everyone needs to assess their own situation as to how open they can be. Below, we list a range of things you can do, some simple and immediate and others that take a bit of preparation or planning. You don’t have to make any big announcement if that’s not right for you. There are subtle ways to signal to others with similar views. Also, you don’t need to be confrontational. This isn’t about arguing, complaining or trying to convince anyone of anything.

This site will be an evolving resource to give ideas and links to other sources of information such as knowing where you stand legally when it comes to holding GC views. If you’re already fairly vocal and public about your GC views, you can still do all of these things to make yourself more visible to others who are secretly GC and thereby provide a supportive hand to those “coming out”.

Obviously, Dec 19th is on a Sunday this year, and some of these actions are ongoing, so feel free to spill over into the Monday, and the rest of the week, and over the holidays.

1) Post on social media

Say something about the reality and importance of biological sex and use the hashtag #GenderCriticalComingOutDay or #SexNotGender and #IStandWithReality. Or simply pose a question relating to the issues. You don’t have to make an announcement about your position, just start a conversation with your question.

If you’ve been using an anonymous account to engage in the debate you need to bear in mind the value of maintaining anonymity. Sharing your real name and/or photo might be something some people want to do, but it’s not going to be right for everybody. Nobody should feel pressured into doing anything that isn’t right for them. Obviously, follow the usual rules about protecting yourself online and don’t disclose things like your address.


2) Change your bio or email signature

More and more, people are encouraged to add pronouns to bios, signatures, video call names. If the situation works, you could use a form of words that shares your views. For example:
“My pronouns are based on my biology”
“The pronouns you use about me are up to you”
“My pronouns are: up to you”
“My pronouns are reality-based”

Find out more about pronouns at work from Sex Matters
sex-matters.org/posts/updates/pronouns/


3) Be the billboard / buy some merch

There are a few different sites selling great merch with GC messages. You could wear a definition t-shirt to work or when meeting up with friends/family. You could start using a “Female” design mug in the office. It could be something more subtle like a Women Won’t Wheesht badge or ribbon. Or leave a copy of “Trans” or “Material Girls” on your desk. You don’t have to make a statement – others “in the know” will recognise the subtle signals and maybe start a conversation with you.

We’ve linked to some great online stores here.
gendercriticalcomingoutday.org/merch


4) Buy the book

With Christmas coming up you’ve got a range of great books on the issue you can buy for friends and family. If your friends and family aren’t big readers, then the merch mentioned above also makes great prezzies.

See our starter reading list of titles here.
gendercriticalcomingoutday.org/books


5) Ask friends/family if they’ve heard of ‘gender critical‘

This could be a really quick way to connect with other GC people. If they’ve not heard the term already then you can give a quick explanation. You could point them in the direction of blogs and sites you’ve found helpful in understanding more about the issues. If you’re not able to buy GC books or merch, you could use the time over the holidays to start the conversations.


6) Speak to HR at work

Check what your workplace HR policies are for things like maternity leave and equal opportunities monitoring forms for recruitment. For example, do they use the correct language and protected characteristics from the Equality Act 2010, or have they introduced gender ideology terms and conflated sex with gender? You could also write to your HR department and ask them if they know about the issues or ask for an informal chat to find out more. Again, this shouldn’t be confrontational. Ask questions of HR and see what the response is. Remember, HR staff are people too, and generally working in HR for the right reasons, trying to make the workplace a fair and positive space. Also, many of them likely share gender critical views.

For more information about issues in the workplace, take a look at the Sex Matters website.
sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/the-workplace/


Don’t stop there!

While Gender Critical Coming Out Day is a focused point where we can all make some noise about this together, it doesn’t stop there. These actions are about continuing to be out as gender critical, to have the conversations and speak up. So, we’ll be following up with a series of Gender Critical Days of Action in 2022.

More info: gendercriticalcomingoutday.org/
bighardexcellentfish · 05/12/2021 19:03

I'm worried about this to be honest.

Are you going to come out on Gender Critical Coming Out Day 19 December?
WanderinWomb · 05/12/2021 19:28

Why be worried about that?

The whole point of coming out is that one can no longer be doxed. Coming out is future protection.
No one is being forced to say anything dramatic or career ending FGS.
I'm out on FB and in person as much is appropriate, I'm careful what I say and am inspired by brave women by Magdalen Burns, Suzanne Moore, Emma Hilton, Maya and JK Rowling to be braver.
If I was at previous workplace I would be even more circumspect about my phrasing but surely we are all intelligent enogh to work out our own limits.... I will be doing something public , most likely with clothing ,that have avoided doing due to area I live in , to give solidarity and strength to any secret GCers in my postcode. Might even make a new friend.

As for that image , both of those are little twitter trolls that don't deserve amplifying.
One purports to be on "our side" but in practice is an anti-Linehan account and not much else.

Bosky · 05/12/2021 20:52

@bighardexcellentfish

I'm worried about this to be honest.

The only reason to be worried is if you decide to ignore all the sensible advice on the site about making sure you stay safe.

Twitter trolls seem to imagine that because they spend all their waking hours on there harassing people that everybody else wastes their life away on Social Media.

My main criticism of the suggestions for what to do on 19th December is that the first suggestion is "Post on social media":

Twitter UK:
Less than 8% of people who have access to the internet use Twitter once a month or more, and on average for less than 4 mins.

So the least useful thing to do on 19 Dec, or any other time for that matter, is simply to tweet a hashtag.

So I would quibble that the suggestions are not in the best order and that it would have been better to have, top of the list:

  • if possible, do something off-line, in the real world, that is likely to make a difference


  • post about it on social media using the hashtag, which means more people will get to know about it


  • if you have nothing to report yourself, help to amplify what others have reported


  • observe the "safety" advice both on and off-line.


For example, there are lots of real life "success stories" posted on Mumsnet but they don't get known about more widely.

Not least because, in my experience, most women imagine that Mumsnet is only for mothers of young children, if they have heard of it at all. Even when they have, they have never heard of the Feminism Women's Rights/Sex and Gender Boards and think that I am having a laugh when I suggest they take a look.

Overall, I think "Gender Critical Coming Out Day" is a good idea with an unfortunately misleading name, and that name has given rise to genuine misunderstanding and concerns.

Some people also have concerns or differences of opinion wrt some of the people who have proposed it and who are promoting it. If, because of that, they do not as a matter of principle want to be involved, that is fine.

However, as far as I am aware, this is the first time that anyone has attempted to inspire a mass, global action of this type, promoted publicly and inviting anyone who wants to to join in.

If it is not well supported, the only real winners will be the people who hate us.
ArabellaScott · 05/12/2021 20:56

@Babdoc

I’m a bit conflicted about it. I am and always have been openly GC, and I can see it might encourage people (who were frightened of bullying or abuse from TRAs), to express their views with more confidence.
But… isn’t it a bit like having a “the Earth is round” day? Or a “water is wet” day?
Being GC should be taken for granted, as standard science based truth - it is not some bizarre faith based dogma that needs “validated” or encouraged.
By having a coming out day, you risk reducing it in the public consciousness to the same level of batshit beliefs as gender ideology, or flat earthism.

Yep.

It's not especially brave or remarkable to state that sex is immutable.

I've been vaguely 'out' for quite a long time. Lost some friends, gained much better ones more. I don't know that making it into a big dramatic Thing is terribly helpful, really.
WanderinWomb · 05/12/2021 21:13

I agree with Bosky.

Think of all the posts here "today I p**ked my taxi driver/ the school governor/ my next door neighbour/ OH/aunt Betty/ my etc etc"

Think of it as the day to stop putting it off and finally wear your Woman hoodie walking the dog and speak to everyone that clocks it, to read Helen Joyce's book on your commute, and eventually write to your MP after putting it off for years.

These are not high risk actions and I would be very very concerned about motivations of anyone trying to put people off. In words of Suzanne Moore "there's more of us than you think".

Riverlee · 05/12/2021 22:26

@Bosky

Thank you for your long and detailed reply. It makes more sense now (and lessscary).On our computer system, we have ‘Gender’ for the sex of the client, so I may bring that into conversation, ie. Technically it should read ‘sex’ not ‘gender’.

I agree that ‘gender critical coming out day’ is misleading. Maybe ‘gender critical Awareness’ day may be less daunting. ‘Coming out’ suggests you have to make a public statement on that day, rather than making more people aware.

@WanderinWomb. Never heard of ‘doxed’ before. Had to look up what that meant!

MargaritaPie · 06/12/2021 22:55

The planned date is 6 days before Xmas.

Just my 2 cents but wouldn't this be bad timing to bring up a potentially controversial topic (which may cause fallouts) with the people you plan to spend Xmas day with?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/12/2021 00:15

I agree that ‘gender critical coming out day’ is misleading. Maybe ‘gender critical Awareness’ day may be less daunting. ‘Coming out’ suggests you have to make a public statement on that day, rather than making more people aware.

I agree.

Bosky · 07/12/2021 13:49

@MargaritaPie

The planned date is 6 days before Xmas.

Just my 2 cents but wouldn't this be bad timing to bring up a potentially controversial topic (which may cause fallouts) with the people you plan to spend Xmas day with?

Only if you intend to use the event in order to "bring up a potentially controversial topic (which may cause fallouts) with the people you plan to spend Xmas day with?"

There are plenty of other options.

Maybe leave that one until after Xmas?
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