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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kathleen Stock on BBC Woman's Hour today

419 replies

Justme56 · 03/11/2021 09:50

Just seen this on twitter.

OP posts:
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334bu · 04/11/2021 12:20

Cllr Murray, the authority’s equality spokesperson, was also called out last year by then Scottish Labour Kezia Dugdale for “blatant sexism” after he branded a women’s group campaigning for equal representation as “absolute roasters”.
Dundee Courier

Gregor seems to love women, doesn't he?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/11/2021 12:25

@littlbrowndog

And now we have one of Scotland’s kind people 🤦‍♀️
Not just misogynistic but disableist as well. What a charmer.
NoThankYouSaurus · 04/11/2021 12:26

@OvaHere

It's really come to something when bog standard men can weaponise the fact the public at large see them as bog standard men and call it a hate crime.
This ^

Jesus, every single man, woman, child and dog will be guilty of hate thought crime whenever they walk past him in the street.

Why can't the supporters see how insane this all is? My head hurts trying to understand them.

ScreamingMeMe · 04/11/2021 12:37

Where has the "peed on her office door" thing come from? I thought that happened to Rosa Freedman.

merrymouse · 04/11/2021 13:20

I think the BBC has a duty to broadcast different views and really should interview Murray.

I for one would live to know more about ‘having to abuse privilege to pass as a guy’.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 04/11/2021 13:40

@ScreamingMeMe

Where has the "peed on her office door" thing come from? I thought that happened to Rosa Freedman.
Me! Sorry. It incensed me so much I wasn't paying enough attention to precisely which female professor was the recipient.

That there are two academic women who have been so appallingly treated is to much for any single, supposedly sane universe, let alone one country!

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 14:33

In the interview with Julie Bindel, KS talks of them seeing KS as a massive threat to them, they've built their careers on sand and contributed to an environment where terrible things are happening. Which made me think of Stephanie Arai at Filia saying the level of hate is PROOF that I'm a successful threat. KS says it's not just a T*RF war but a TURF war with a 'U'

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 04/11/2021 14:35

@merrymouse

I think the BBC has a duty to broadcast different views and really should interview Murray.

I for one would live to know more about ‘having to abuse privilege to pass as a guy’.

I would pay for that podcast…
FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 14:44

On the bullying academics:

The bullies announce the university has 'institutionalised transphobia' if ONE professor disagree's with them and is allowed to keep her job. Former professor Alison Phipps suggested she left Uni of Sussex because of KS.

KS says we've 'moved a long way from responsible truth seeker to naked self interest'.

Shereen Benjamin, University of Edinburgh says Universities have to cut ties with Stonewall and act to stop harrassment of feminist academics, rather than making statements about academic freedom, whilst doing nothing about the bullies. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4392603-University-of-Edinburgh

3timeslucky · 04/11/2021 14:45

The university had no grounds to sack Stock, so the students resorted to other means, which, looking at recent Twitter posts, they believe were successful

Given she now has a bigger and less encumbered platform (as she points out herself in the interview with Julie Bindel) I hope they live to regret the actions they took that led to that happening. The idea of them crowing over her departure is just sickening.

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 14:51

I agree 3times. Something good has come out of it though by ordinary people previously unaware now becoming aware and seeing how childish and nasty the extreme activists are

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 15:06

No religion is above criticism yet these TRA academics cancel people for heresy as if we live in a Theocracy not a Democracy

JB makes the point that it's not about trans issues but misogyny. When JB and KS gave talks at universities on topics that had nothing to do with trans (Domestic abuse, VAWG) bullies tried to de-platform and discredit them. KS gave an example of Prof. Sally Haslanger writing to every member of the board of a philosphical magazine to tell them not to let KS write a review of a book. The review and the book were not about trans.

These people are actively trying to destroy peoples careers and lives of anyone who dares disagree with the religion.

ElectricCarbonara · 04/11/2021 16:05

I thought the suggestion from Emma in the question about going in to politics waa interesting. She said it because of Kathleen's intervention in policy.
I had an interesting conversation about this last night at a birthday dinner with a Conservative candidate in waiting who is also a magistrate (a gay man).

The upshot was a view that his own demographic have to get on top of what's happening.

The news about Kathleen is certainly reaching people beyond feminists and students.

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 16:32

yes Electric, going into Politics question was interesting

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 16:33

When Professor Stock got her OBE, some academics called for her honour to be withdrawn and signed “An Open Letter Concerning Transphobia in Philosophy you can see who they are. And then More academics (many more) signed a counter letter of support Open Letter Concerning Academic Freedom

Is academia is comprised of 3 groups? an extremist minority + silent majority + unaware majority?

MarshaBradyo · 04/11/2021 16:41

How easy will it be for her to get a new position?

What about lost income due to this

KaycePollard · 04/11/2021 16:43

I have friends in academia - this is not an isolated incident.

No, it's not.

I've listened to the whole thing on BBC Sounds. I heard a comment from one of our monitors asserting that only transwomen should be able to determine who's trans.

HOWEVER - the HUGE contradiction - which we really must keep articulating and pointing out, is that no TRA will ever allow women to argue the same thing.

That only women should be listened to about who is a woman.

It's the good old double standards and male entitlement all over again, isn't it?

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 16:49

Extract from the open letter supporting Academic Freedom:

"Sex-specific intimate spaces, athletics, medical services, and prisons have long been the norm in our societies and are represented in the very infrastructure in which we conduct our daily lives. Significant changes to these practices and norms are the kinds of things that our professional scholars must be able to discuss, without constant threat of public vilification."

"It cannot become our standard that where analysis and discussion of matters of public concern may cause offense, the social and institutional consequences of engagement are so costly that few will be willing to do the work. It cannot become our standard that the mere allegation of harm caused by some writing or speech, in the absence of any specific evidence to that effect, is sufficient to trigger such consequences. And it cannot become our standard that the mere fact that someone who causes harm agrees with something said or written by an academic is sufficient to saddle that academic with responsibility for that harm."

"The Open Letter Concerning Transphobia in Philosophy is the latest depressing example of an increasing inclination in the Academy to adopt precisely these kinds of standards. The effect can only be to discourage those whom we employ to research, think, write, and speak about these issues from doing so and to deprive students of a diverse and intellectually rigorous education. This will neither benefit our laws, regulations, and public policies nor improve the education that students receive."

ExcessiveIyDisorganised · 04/11/2021 18:54

The leaflet I was given by a protestor at the open day calls Stock a transphobe repeatedly, calls the LGB Alliance a trans-exclusionary hate group, calls her anti-feminist, anti-queer and anti-intellectual and ends with an explicit demand for Stock to be fired, "until then you'll see us around".

Pretty clear to me that this was about intimidation and harassment not peaceful demonstration, whatever the demonstrator who spoke to a pp said.

ScreamingMeMe · 04/11/2021 20:07

"Anti-intellectual". The irony.

WarriorN · 04/11/2021 20:19

@MarshaBradyo

How easy will it be for her to get a new position?

What about lost income due to this

I don't think she wants a new position from the interview with Julie Bindle.

She's now more able to to speak out.

BethnalGreenBambinos · 04/11/2021 20:50

There's a version of Julie Bindel's Unherd article in the Daily Mail www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10163007/Ex-university-lecturer-Kathleen-Stock-says-WONT-silenced-fight-freedom-thought.html. All the comments, bar one, are supportive of Professor Stock.

TrevorFountain · 04/11/2021 23:10

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a government that was actually getting to grips with this fucking appalling shitshow happening in our universities?

And the academics with tenure - where are they? Why aren't they coming down hard on this anti-academic quasi-religious harmful nonsense? All my old colleagues are retired but there's a couple of old profs still alive & compos mentis and in the Lords and I'm going to contact them.

Jo Phoenix is being reported on now by the Mail Online so it's becoming a bigger story each day.

Igneococcus · 05/11/2021 04:48

Review of the book by Emma Duncan today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ef68d3ec-3cbc-11ec-a9ce-48a11f44f00d?shareToken=e7ecb31c5d48bd388212eb04d8adc2f2

"Biologists discovered that the notion of
two sexes was too simplistic: although the number of people with
differences in sexual development is small, the range is wide."

Is that actually in the book or is it Emma Duncan's reading of it?

Datun · 05/11/2021 05:11

I'm really glad that she now feels unfettered. It keeps happening too. Lots of people who get hounded just become more intransigent. Glinner, Posie, Jenni.