Kathleen Stock on BBC Woman's Hour today

[Justme56]

Just seen this on twitter.

Link to the MailOnline article about Jo Phoenix mentioned above.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10165133/Professor-hounded-job-saying-male-bodied-trans-women-NOT-female-prisons.html

@Igneococcus

Review of the book by Emma Duncan today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ef68d3ec-3cbc-11ec-a9ce-48a11f44f00d?shareToken=e7ecb31c5d48bd388212eb04d8adc2f2

"Biologists discovered that the notion of
two sexes was too simplistic: although the number of people with
differences in sexual development is small, the range is wide."

Is that actually in the book or is it Emma Duncan's reading of it?

I’d assume the discussion of biology and differences in sexual development is thoroughly discussed in the book. But I haven’t read it (yet) so hopefully someone else will clarify.

Absolutely great review!

"Biologists discovered that the notion of
two sexes was too simplistic: although the number of people with
differences in sexual development is small, the range is wide."

Is that actually in the book or is it Emma Duncan's reading of it?

It's Emma Duncan's reading of it. I think she is confused.

The sex we are born with is not irrelevant to our existence for it shapes our experience — having periods or not, having the possibility of giving birth or not. In Stock’s view the notion that gender identity is all that matters is a fiction in which people become immersed.

I think she summarises this correctly though.

I haven't read "Material Girls" yet, it's on the pile next to my bed, but I assume if this were something Kathleen Stock says in the book it would have been mentioned by someone on MN by now.
I like the review overall but that really stood out for me.

This is what Stock says in the conclusion to the chapter on sex:

“This chapter has established no serious challenge to the idea of two natural, pre-given sexes. There is a naturally occurrent division of humans into males and females. Over 99 per cent of humans fall unambiguously into one category or the other, including most people with DSDs. As binaries in nature go, the sex division is one of the most stable and predictable there is.”

Stock talks about different ways of categorising sex (chromosomes, gametes, clusters), and the concept of categories. I suspect the problem is that it’s difficult to summarise her careful and thorough examination in a sentence for a Times article.

Did anybody else hear Justin Webb interviewing Jo Grady on Radio 4 about the UCU pension dispute? I know he's been praised here quite often but it was good to hear him ask what she had to say about how one of her members had been treated. She tried to divert the subject to the compulsory redundancies of over 100 staff at Leicester but he was having none of it. She said she stood by Sussex UCU and could not even summon up one word of sympathy.

She said she stood by Sussex UCU and could not even summon up one word of sympathy.

I think this is slightly complicated by the fact that if Kathleen Stock wasn't a member of UCU they had no duty to act on her behalf. However, I really don't understand why they are arguing over compulsory redundancies when they also appear to believe that an employer should be able to sack an employee without cause.

I thought she was in UCU originally but left because of the branch's lack of support, merrymouse. I might be wrong though.

In her interview she talked about getting an email from her union didn't she? That was UCU.

Just listened to this - Excellent interview and pleased with the BBC on broadcasting this to a large audience.

UCU actively came out against KS and distributed a letter to staff and students to that end, iirc.

Only just listened, now. She comes across as reasonable, calm (despite being v upset), thoughtful, intelligent, kind and empathetic - everything you want in a teacher. I found her utterly charming.

Her treatment has been appalling; I am so angry that our Universities are behaving this STUPIDLY, and that a whole generation of our youth are paying £9+K a year for what? Facts they can read in books, but NOT argument. Learning how to argue is the foundation stone of University education, or used to be. No more. We're producing a generation of idiots.

@nettie434

I thought she was in UCU originally but left because of the branch's lack of support, merrymouse. I might be wrong though.

Yes, I thought this too. However I think she left before the current round of demos demanding that students should be able to sack lecturers because they pay their wages…

I'm listening now, what an excellent interview.

Around 30 minutes devoted to Stock, this is exactly what WH should be doing.

"Biologists discovered that the notion of two sexes was too simplistic: although the number of people with differences in sexual development is small, the range is wide."

This makes as much sense as "Biologists discovered that the notion of one species was too simplistic: although the number of people with differences in development is small, the range is wide."

However, I really don't understand why they are arguing over compulsory redundancies when they also appear to believe that an employer should be able to sack an employee without cause.

Amazing - you'd think a union would understand their basic reason for existence, but somehow Wokism overrules everything.

twitter.com/DAaronovitch/status/1456516848674091008

I've watched a massive fight break out on my FB feed between an ex-academic i hardly know who expressed support for Stock and her circle. I've found it quite frightening.

I know an academic who knew a lot of of prof Moore's work and also knew other local academics who had spoken to her, worrying about and working with Moore or sharing a platform which was on things nothing to do with trans.

It's occurred to me that the bbc have been quite clever in hiring Emma Barnett.

She's got a good journalistic background, and by lengthening the programme, this has allowed these longer in-depth interviews and more opportunities to cover current affairs.

Her interview with Amanda Knox made it on to newsnight, which I don't think ever happened with previous interviewers.

Random, but my brain insists on processing that screen name Grogipher like it’s a monster out of a children’s book. Like Ickabog or Gruffalo.

Did anybody else hear Justin Webb interviewing Jo Grady on Radio 4 about the UCU pension dispute?

Jo Grady is an idiot - not a proper grown up for such a responsible job. I hang in there in the UCU, but only just. She was using T*erfblocker for a while, so I couldn't see her tweets - the Gen Sec of my own union!

What's being done to academic pensions is a scandal but the current UCU exec are not capable of advocating or bargaining on our behalf.

Academics have always swapped salaries (I'd be earning at least 50% more than I earn as a professor if I'd taken up the civil service graduate entry/high flyer job I was offered 30 years ago) for tenure (which we no longer have) and a decent pension.

I know an academic who knew a lot of of prof Moore's work and also knew other local academics who had spoken to her, worrying about and working with Moore or sharing a platform which was on things nothing to do with trans.

Moore? Is this yet another professor in this situation?

womansplaceuk.org/2019/06/21/in-defence-of-michele-moore/

As well as the linked talk in the article, there's also this one which was around the time her book came out (joint publication.)

I think her book was one of the ones that was regularly removed from the library at the Tavistock that is mentioned in episode 5 of Nolan.