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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Nicola Sturgeon shouts “shame on you” to Tory MSP who mentioned last week’s demo

208 replies

Letsnotdothisplease · 08/09/2021 20:27

twitter.com/forwomenscot/status/1435662934743687169?s=21

OP posts:
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2021 08:05

There is no principle there. It's just trying to manipulate women into sabotaging their own campaign's effectiveness, isn't it?

Yes it is. So there need to be more demonstrations, if they don't like those. Bigger ones. Until they have to acknowledge the unpopularity of their proposals.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/09/2021 08:32

I just came across this. Imagine how the average woman would react.

twitter.com/narstar3/status/1435681093794123781?s=19

ScreamingMeMe · 09/09/2021 08:43

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]I just came across this. Imagine how the average woman would react.

twitter.com/narstar3/status/1435681093794123781?s=19[/quote]
Well you have those two aggressive protesters to contend with - check shirt and "Witch, witch, witch!". That's the sort of person Scottish women could be encountering in their spaces - it beggars 9belief. Did Sturgeon see the videos of the protest?? Does she care?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2021 08:43

I think we had a thread about that person.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2021 08:44

I bet she knows exactly what happened at the protest, and that's why she's uncomfortable with it being brought up, not because she cares about the women, but because it's not great optics.

ShrillSiren · 09/09/2021 08:48

I've thought that there's going to be backlash against GNC and gay people before this is over too.
If TRAs think the average man on the street will stand by and watch while obviously male people enter spaces with their daughters, wives and mothers, they're more naive than I thought.

Do these people and their cheerleaders ever just stop and think? (I already know the answer)

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2021 08:51

I think there needs to be another street engagement campaign like the one FPFW did in England in 2018. They could encourage people to write to their MSPs, or sign a petition.

FrancescaContini · 09/09/2021 08:52

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]I just came across this. Imagine how the average woman would react.

twitter.com/narstar3/status/1435681093794123781?s=19[/quote]
This is horrifying. The sheer aggression, and obviously relishing upsetting a woman by being there.

And what exactly is the stick?? It looks very threatening despite the pastel colours 🤔

KimikosNightmare · 09/09/2021 08:58

The only people affected by phrases like "you're a right winger" arelefties. Conservative voters just say, "yeah, and?

I vote Conservative- even when I still voted Labour for Westminster I've been voting Tory in Holyrood from its inception.

The idea that mainstream UK Conservatives are "fascists" is too idiotic to bother replying to. The Tory party in the UK isn't even as right wing as The Democratic Party in the US.

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 09/09/2021 09:14

The SNP are aiming for a dictatorship. Even before they went down the self ID rabbit hole it was clear the authoritarianism was concerning. Dissent has never been allowed, any groups that are consulted are funded by government and the judiciary is too close

whichiswitch · 09/09/2021 09:14

@UmpteenthTime

I just can’t make sense of what NS is thinking. All of it is mind blowing to me. What’s her angle ? What am I missing? I just don’t get it. I’ve heard all the rumours about her marriage, Peter Murrell’s preferences etc etc but to dismiss women like this ? Unbelievable. How any self respecting woman can have any respect for NS is beyond me. Does the majority of the Scottish electorate not see what’s happening ? I’m shocked by this.
The only way that i can rationalise it is that independence trumps everything. Not sure the majority would actually want to live in country NS and the SNP are creating for women if there was any thought beyond getting their independence. I'm of Scottish heritage and always wanted to live there. Not now that's for sure!
WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 09/09/2021 09:15

I think a pp is correct
Money. Somewhere along the line they have been paid

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2021 09:19

Look at my thread about the hapless Women's Equality Party, where I've posted an anonymous account on Glinner's substack where appears that one prolific male donor with a trans child is holding the whole party to ransom over their self ID position. He's basically paying the wages of leader Mandu Reid and all the admin, and they are dancing to his tune.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2021 09:20

The Big Lie - how the WEP was always about gender rather than sex www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4058470-the-big-lie-how-the-wep-was-always-about-gender-rather-than-sex

prudencepuffin · 09/09/2021 09:29

So does this apply to the climate emergency too?
So women are expected to forego lobbying parliament, and to avoid speaking to our own MPs. If we do lobby for our interests, we're collaborators with those driving austerity measures.

If we lobbied our Tory MP on environmental issues, we are "fascists", and "collaborators", for consorting with the enemy. What a load of bullshit. Never voted Tory in my life. Doesnt mean I dont believe in protecting womens rights. I get a bit tired of these lazy cries of "fascist" and "bigot" from people who dont bother to understand the arguments.

PronounssheRa · 09/09/2021 09:46

I get a bit tired of these lazy cries of "fascist" and "bigot" from people who dont bother to understand the arguments.

It's meaningless, lazy and merely used to silence women. I'd bet most who sling round accusations of fascism have no idea what the word actually means.

Deliriumoftheendless · 09/09/2021 09:48

Do we all have to stop being happy gay marriage became legal because the Tories brought it in?

I mean, I thought that was a good thing but it was the Tories so..?

FrancescaContini · 09/09/2021 09:54

@PronounssheRa

I get a bit tired of these lazy cries of "fascist" and "bigot" from people who dont bother to understand the arguments.

It's meaningless, lazy and merely used to silence women. I'd bet most who sling round accusations of fascism have no idea what the word actually means.

Couldn’t agree more.

Also undermines the significance of appalling events that took place in Europe in 1930s and 1940s in the name of fascism.

ShrillSiren · 09/09/2021 09:54

The thing with the SNP seems to be that they've (or whoever is paying them) have realised that people will vote for them purely for independence, no matter what they do. So they can do anything and still win votes. Until more people in Scotland actually know what's going on this is going to continue.
What they've done so far has been seen as niche issues, and not affected men TBH, so it's going to keep going until it starts affecting them. It may be too late by then.

Tibtom · 09/09/2021 10:19

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld

The SNP are aiming for a dictatorship. Even before they went down the self ID rabbit hole it was clear the authoritarianism was concerning. Dissent has never been allowed, any groups that are consulted are funded by government and the judiciary is too close
The judgement on their named person scheme: "The first thing that a totalitarian regime tries to do is get at the children, to distance them from the subversive, varied influences of their families, and indoctrinate them in their rulers' view of the world"
NonnyMouse1337 · 09/09/2021 10:25

What on earth does Nicola Sturgeon mean by saying 'shame on you' to Murdo Fraser in that clip?! 🤯

He correctly highlighted how divisive the proposals around GRA reform have been. That the strength of feeling and level of concerns are so strong that hundreds of women made an effort to turn up outside parliament during a Thursday afternoon. Most protests are nowhere near that size. The fact that so many women were there means there's a lot more who weren't able to make it.

I wonder if Sturgeon is slowly losing her mind. Like many other politicians, she thought GRA reform was a piece of cake - an easy and cheap win that would get her into the history books and give her yet another chance to show the middle finger at Westminster. Another feather in the 'Scotland is the bestest and mostest progressive place in all the lands and I made it happen' cap.

She must realise deep down now what a giant fuck up this all is. She has painted herself into a corner by blindly bowing down to the gender zealots.

Violent sexual offenders in women's prisons, medical scandal on children, the obvious stupidity of saying women's rights and single-sex spaces will be protected while enabling any male to change the sex marker on their birth certificate thereby placing them in the legal category of female which has ramifications on policies and provisions.
She's going to be in the history books alright, but not for the reasons she assumed.

The Tories in Westminster deftly dodged a bullet despite being the ones that kicked off all this shite in the first place.
By retaining the medical diagnosis but promising to make the process super easy, free and online, the Tories have made a sly and calculated move on the gender zealots. They can no longer bleat about how aaaaaawful the whole process is. If they want to wail about how all this still isn't good enough, they will have to admit that their real aim is to get rid of the entire medical gatekeeping process (even though in reality the vast majority of GRC applications are accepted and the panel are very accommodating and helpful to applicants). Polls show that most of the public agree there should be some sort of diagnosis underpinning the privilege of being able to change your birth certificate. (Even though falsifying factual information is not a human right, but the gender zealots have been successful in pushing this narrative because when the GRA was established, same-sex marriage wasn't around and the state pension ages between women and men were different.)

Sturgeon was a fool and fell hook, line and sinker for a shiny turd. Under the heat, the coating has come off and the turd is starting to smell....real bad. She didn't leave a way out for herself the way the Tories at Westminster did. And she must know this. I wonder if we will see increasingly bizarre and irrational behaviour from her as this issue takes centre stage. The attention of the general public was previously focused on Brexit and the pandemic. Maybe she will jump into an indy referendum soon, not because she wants one or believes in one, but she might think it will distract the media and the public again and it's easier to push through legislation that most people don't agree with when their attention is elsewhere. As per the Denton's handbook this is a tried and tested method of gender zealots.

DdraigGoch · 09/09/2021 10:36

@LizzieSiddal

The jeering from NS just says it all really doesn’t it. She actually thinks women campaigning to protect their rights are shameful.

She’s the bigot here.

Given that she's a nationalist, I can't see why this surprises everyone. Bigotry is practically in the name of her party.
Tibtom · 09/09/2021 10:45

The next frightening step is NS would have MPs arrested for hate crime for speaking up for women. Patrick Harvie quite clearly wanted to be able to so.

KimikosNightmare · 09/09/2021 10:51

@LizzieMacQueen

I thought Nicola Sturgeon had got all angry and upset at the Tory woman's comment about 'unless you're English'. And now you're saying she's blurting out comments like 'shame on you'.

Bunch of clowns.

The separatists can deny it as much as they want but there is a kernel of truth in the "unless you're English" comment.
KimikosNightmare · 09/09/2021 10:52

@Tibtom

The next frightening step is NS would have MPs arrested for hate crime for speaking up for women. Patrick Harvie quite clearly wanted to be able to so.
The frightening step is Patrick Harvie having a ministerial post.
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