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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Nicola Sturgeon shouts “shame on you” to Tory MSP who mentioned last week’s demo

208 replies

Letsnotdothisplease · 08/09/2021 20:27

twitter.com/forwomenscot/status/1435662934743687169?s=21

OP posts:
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5
Passmeamenuatthetottenham · 08/09/2021 22:55

Hate/fascists/bigotry/far right - these desperate words are getting a bit tiresome to be honest.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 08/09/2021 23:10

Whoever reported Catherina, could you please not, because I wanted to know what her answer was. I can't spend 24/7 on MN, trying to see posts before the deletion fairy comes along!

BlackForestCake · 08/09/2021 23:10

I do wonder what they have on Sturgeon to have her spouting this drivel.

I also wonder why Kate Forbes seems to be making a decent career in the SNP despite saying things that would get other people demonised as a transphobe. The other night she would not say on TV that she supported the bill the ScotGov is pushing. Yet Sturgeon has promoted her.

GreyhoundG1rl · 08/09/2021 23:13

@CatherinaJTV

I’ve heard all the rumours about her marriage, Peter Murrell’s preferences etc etc but to dismiss women like this ?

Seriously? What's wrong with you? I cannot wait for the GRA reform to be passed, so this hate can stop.

No hate. Just anger at women voices not being heard. Why would you dismiss this as hate, I wonder?
MiladyBerserko · 08/09/2021 23:16

Well there is rather a lot of shit being lobbed in the SNP ranks.

thecritic.co.uk/issues/march-2021/sealed-with-a-glasgow-kiss/

OllyBJolly · 08/09/2021 23:25

@BlackForestCake

I do wonder what they have on Sturgeon to have her spouting this drivel.

I also wonder why Kate Forbes seems to be making a decent career in the SNP despite saying things that would get other people demonised as a transphobe. The other night she would not say on TV that she supported the bill the ScotGov is pushing. Yet Sturgeon has promoted her.

Because she is one of the very few elected representatives with eloquence, brains and credibility. It’s a shallow talent pool.
LizzieMacQueen · 08/09/2021 23:26

I thought Nicola Sturgeon had got all angry and upset at the Tory woman's comment about 'unless you're English'. And now you're saying she's blurting out comments like 'shame on you'.

Bunch of clowns.

Waitwhat23 · 08/09/2021 23:29

@PurgatoryOfPotholes off the top of my head, Catherine ignored the second bit of the comment, which talked about when the general public become aware of all this and only commented on this bit - 'May I ask, do you not have any trans people in your life that you give a flying flamingo about?' with the usual 'of course I do that's why I hate all you transphobic bitches' type statement. The usual. No substance. Very sound bite-y/screenshotty.

I didn't report it for 2 reasons. 1. It was a ridiculous risible comment with no substance to it and 2. I think it's best to leave them up for the lurkers.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 08/09/2021 23:41

Thank you, Waitwhat

That's boring. Sad I really wanted her to engage with the chain of causation post-GRA reform.

MiladyBerserko · 08/09/2021 23:43

Oh yes, I think all Catherine's posts should stand, please dont report them

UmpteenthTime · 08/09/2021 23:49

I didn’t report the posts, but I was genuinely taken aback at the automatic assumption that if you’re concerned about women’s rights at all, you are brimming full of hate and a fascist to boot.
Think I’ll go back to lurking if that’s the quality of ‘debate’.

BoastMostFulsomely · 08/09/2021 23:50

I just don't understand how anyone can present a reform of the GRA and be okay with leaving Section 16 as it stands: it negates the argument that TWAW and TMAM. If so, Section 16 is a denial of their identity.

Section 16 is about primogeniture.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/16?view=extent

So if you're a trans woman you're a woman, unless you're down to inherit a peerage in which case you're a man. But do feel free to undress in women's spaces and accept awards for women and take places on women-only shortlists, after all, you're only a man for money/property-ownership/status purposes.

You can't have it both ways! Or, to put it another way, why can an exemption be made for peerages (not transphobic) but not for rape crisis services and women's shelters (transphobic).

The utter blindness to this - by advocates and allies to the reform - makes my blood boil. Either total ignorance or total hypocrisy.

Rhannion · 08/09/2021 23:50

@CatherinaJTV

and she was absolutely right. How bigotted of any Tory to pretend they would be "for women's rights" when Tories have, for the past 11 years, made so many decisions that have made, in particular women's, lives harder. That's why I was so angry that those Tories were allowed to stand with the WWW crowd. It is a cheap point to score for them, a win win, they get to NOT do anything that actually helps women AND they get to oppose Nicola Sturgeon.
At least they made the effort to listen to us on the day! Unlike the dear leader, shame on all politicians from any party who allow women’s rights to be demolished.
Rhannion · 08/09/2021 23:53

@CatherinaJTV

I’ve heard all the rumours about her marriage, Peter Murrell’s preferences etc etc but to dismiss women like this ?

Seriously? What's wrong with you? I cannot wait for the GRA reform to be passed, so this hate can stop.

CatherinaJTV we know what you want... You are a nasty piece of work.
KimikosNightmare · 09/09/2021 00:01

[quote ScreamingMeMe]Here's another SNP scandal.

I bet any one of us who is/was on twitter has witnessed a Janey Godley led pile-on and her disgusting, vitriolic tweets. A

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/7670687/janey-godley-apologises-hurtful-tweets-taxpayers-covid-campaign/amp/?__twitter_impression=true[/quote]
What a foul piece of work Godley is.

In a statement, Ms Godley said: “These historic tweets that people have quite rightly found offensive are deeply hurtful and shows my lack of empathy and zero self-awareness and come from a time of ignorance in my life

Godley is 60- some of these tweets are as recent as 2017.

KimikosNightmare · 09/09/2021 00:02

AND they get to oppose Nicola Sturgeon

Oh ha, ha, - it's their job description. The Conservative Party is the opposition.

Tibtom · 09/09/2021 00:05

Well that just goes to show how much she has listenedto women's concerns. It brings into question the legitimacy of the consultation. Can there be a judicial review of this?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/09/2021 02:26

@UmpteenthTime

I didn’t report the posts, but I was genuinely taken aback at the automatic assumption that if you’re concerned about women’s rights at all, you are brimming full of hate and a fascist to boot. Think I’ll go back to lurking if that’s the quality of ‘debate’.
It's very disappointing.

Look Catherina, you can try to intimidate left-leaning ex-Guardian reading Mumsnetters into silence by calling them right-wing, but at some point it loses its power, as can be seen.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the Conservative party reliably wins a plurality of votes and therefore elections, and does so without worrying itself about the denizens of FWR. Are you shouting "right wing bigot" at the wider voting public? No, because you know that it never had any power on them to start with. The only people affected by phrases like "you're a right winger" are lefties. Conservative voters just say, "yeah, and?" Grin

So clearly you think this is a left-wing forum too. Grin So let's drop the grandstanding and discuss the wider voting public. They will not shrug their shoulders and forget about this issue as the social ramifications become more visible.

If Dave and Kim the floating voters from up the road take their daughter Vicky swimming at the weekend, and they see someone like Alex Drummond or Karen White going into the ladies' changing room, they're not going to worry about being seen as Conservative voters, are they? What about when it's not even-tempered Dave and Kim seeing this, but a hot-headed young man who has just heard about an Alex Drummond lookalike turning up at his mum's women-only swimming session?

Carry on like this, and you will reap a social harvest of violent transphobia.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/09/2021 02:38

KimikosNightmare

Godley is 60- some of these tweets are as recent as 2017.

Gosh, I thought she was in her 30s. I only know of Janey from twitter, where disputes involving her as a protagonist seem to frequently cross my timeline.

PersonaNonGarter · 09/09/2021 02:54

Because she is one of the very few elected representatives with eloquence, brains and credibility. It’s a shallow talent pool.

This about Kate Forbes. Also Andy Wightman (much good it did him). The Scottish Tory MSPs are intellectual giants compared to most of the SNP and Greens. And that’s really not much of a compliment.

Sophoclesthefox · 09/09/2021 06:48

Come on people, @CatherinaJTV’s position is very clear! They’ve certainly maintained it across enough threads now.

It is unethical to work with Tories, because of the destructive havoc wreaked on women’s lives through their austerity programme. Anyone who does so is a fascist.

UNLESS it involves working with the Tories on the committees involved in the ongoing process of proposed GRA reform in England and Wales, such as giving evidence to the Women and Minorites Select Committee on the continuing work on reform of the GRA in E&W, such as this evidence session on the 8th April 2021, attended by representatives from Stonewall, GIRES, The Beaumont society and Mermaids. The Committee is chaired by Caroline Nokes, MP (Conservative), and has a Tory majority membership.

committees.parliament.uk/event/4042/formal-meeting-oral-evidence-session/

For some reason, though, there’s an invisibility field on my posts for Catherina, or I’m sure they’d be able to clear up my continuing confusion over when it makes you a fascist to work with Tories, and when it doesn’t. Smile

Anyway, back to Nichola. She certainly seems to have got the memo that standing up for women’s rights and indeed defending everyone’s right to peaceful demonstration is something that transactivists think women can be shamed out of.

It’s not. And it should worry anyone that the First Minister is calling a peaceful demonstration shameful, regardless of what you think of the cause.

ScreamingMeMe · 09/09/2021 07:20

What a foul piece of work Godley is.

In a statement, Ms Godley said: “These historic tweets that people have quite rightly found offensive are deeply hurtful and shows my lack of empathy and zero self-awareness and come from a time of ignorance in my life

Godley is 60- some of these tweets are as recent as 2017.

There really is no excuse for using a slur for disabled people that was recognised as unacceptable in the 1990s ffs.

She's awful. I think the 'fame' she got from holding that 'Trump is a cunt' sign went to her head and she sees herself as judge, jury and executioner.

The amount of pile ons she has led on twitter (not exclusively towards GC people but an awful lot), although I don't believe in cancel culture and the pitchfork mob, I am only human and admit to a little schadenfreude here.

As they say, there's always a tweet .

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/09/2021 07:48

Sophoclesthefox

Shock That's a bloody good point.

So women are expected to forego lobbying parliament, and to avoid speaking to our own MPs. If we do lobby for our interests, we're collaborators with those driving austerity measures.

But trans activists can work within official channels and open discussiona with parliamentary committees for the legislative changes they want without being called fascists?!

There is no principle there. It's just trying to manipulate women into sabotaging their own campaign's effectiveness, isn't it?

MiladyBerserko · 09/09/2021 07:56

I am very glad to see that Roddy Dunlop is engaging

mobile.twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1435716816794492932

ScreamingMeMe · 09/09/2021 08:01

There is no principle there. It's just trying to manipulate women into sabotaging their own campaign's effectiveness, isn't it?

Yep. Emotional blackmail and smearing are very low tactics.