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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Nicola Sturgeon shouts “shame on you” to Tory MSP who mentioned last week’s demo

208 replies

Letsnotdothisplease · 08/09/2021 20:27

twitter.com/forwomenscot/status/1435662934743687169?s=21

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ChristinaXYZ · 09/09/2021 11:00

She really is a disgrace. Feminist indeed. Only for women who agree with her. She is not feminist, nor a democrat. But we knew that seeing how Joanna Cherry was treated.

ArabellaScott · 09/09/2021 11:38

The only people affected by phrases like "you're a right winger" are lefties.

Absolutely. And as you say, it doesn't work anymore.

I know I'm not a fascist. Anyone who calls me a fascist is talking such utter piffle it's not even worth engaging.

I am confused by Sturgeon's comment, here. I've watched the clip several times and can't work out what she's calling 'shame on you' for.

The comment (hard to make out) seems to come midway through Murdo Fraser saying 'a proposal so contentious that just last week we saw one of the [shame on you] largest demonstrations' - what is she responding to?

Any pro Sturgeon people care to comment? What is it that Sturgeon is calling Fraser shameful for? For talking about the GRR at all? For mentioning that it's contentious?

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 09/09/2021 12:14

The very people who shout fascist or bigot in order to prevent others from voicing opinions are the bigots. They are authoritarian and not respectful of any views other than their own. Intolerant of others

ScreamingMeMe · 09/09/2021 12:43

Women Won't Wheest is trending.

If Sturgeon thinks this is going away anytime soon, she's mistaken.

Nicola Sturgeon shouts “shame on you” to Tory MSP who mentioned last week’s demo
Waitwhat23 · 09/09/2021 12:58

@kimikosnightmare agreed - Harvie is odious.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 09/09/2021 13:30

I can't work out what she's trying to shame Murdo for either Confused

Probably just the horror of someone challenging her.

CharlieParley · 09/09/2021 13:37

in this day and age she does stand out as a progressive leader.

That's courtesy of extremely expensive spin doctors. This has allowed her to look progressive, competent and effective without any evidence for that.

Before I alighted upon the politics of sex, gender and gender identity, I was much more interested in the state of school education in Scotland.

I used to dismiss criticism of the SNP's education policies as unionists griping against the independence party. Despite knowing from my children's schooling that there were indeed issues, serious issues, with the new curriculum, I put that down to teething problems. I explained away our falling results in international comparisons as transitional, hoping that once they ironed out the issues, it would be fine.

It wasn't. It won't be. Because as with other issues, the SNP leadership is not willing to listen. Our results in international education comparisons became so abysmal, the Scottish Government decided to withdraw from them. Yes, that's right - instead of addressing the issues, they were just going to pretend they don't exist.

Funding for schools comes from Local Authorities. They've had their funding cut in real terms for more than a decade. (That's not how they Scottish Government spins it, but that's the reality.) My council has been told to "find inefficiencies" to the tune of several million pounds. That pain has to be carried by all public services funded by the council. So my already underfunded kids' school was told to cut over 300 grand from their budget. The school week is now shorter, breaks are shorter, kids are no longer able to take 8 Nat5s (formerly Standard Grades, the Scottish equivalent to GCSEs), all to save money.

Enter the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Following sustained, evidence-based criticism of the "Curriculum for Excellence", the recent OECD review into secondary education in Scotland was widened to include all schools. The report was drafted by the end of 2020 and scheduled to be released in February. It is customary to release the draft, then governments respond and those responses are incorporated into a final report.

The Scottish Government held it back until after the election.

The report was damning. The conclusions are no surprise to those of us who were concerned when the new curriculum was first introduced because those same flaws I thought were teething problems were there by design.

In my view, no leader of government who seriously fucks up the school education of their nation's children can ever be thought of as progressive.

ArabellaScott · 09/09/2021 13:42

This is an interesting article. Most of what it says is accurate, as far as I can ascertain:

thecritic.co.uk/issues/march-2021/sealed-with-a-glasgow-kiss/

It isn't healthy. It isn't democratic, it isn't working. Some of the affiliations between the courts, media, civil service and government are highly questionable to put it mildly.

I'm not especially pro or anti independence, but this party is in big trouble. Which means Scotland is in big trouble.

Sturgeon needs to face up to the problems and get it all out in the open, but unfortunately she seems only to be trying to consolidate power, at all costs.

allmywhat · 09/09/2021 13:42

I find it interesting that she must live in some kind of bubble. She's been fed the line that everyone opposed to self-ID is a raving bigot, and not only does she believe it, but she thinks acting like this is going to make her popular. I'm sure the TRAs ate it up, but they don't represent the public.

Who's advising her? Even if she is a genderist true believer, no one with a finger on the pulse of the public would have done that.

RedDogsBeg · 09/09/2021 13:45

So NS thinks it's shameful that Murdo Frasier went and listened to the members of the electorate gathered outside the Parliament. Is that not what MSP's, MP's are supposed to do?

Bet the poster who also agrees with NS wouldn't say the same about Crispin Blunt, nor would they if the demonstration had been for the GRA Reform.

Authoritarian hypocrites.

As for the oft quoted line that this reform is no threat to women or their rights and that TW are absolutely no threat ever, ever, ever, note the witch shouting person, full on male pattern violence directed at a woman, right up into the woman's face, their face contorted with hate - that person is definitely a threat to women and yet we are expected to shrug our shoulders at the prospect of sharing spaces with that individual. I wouldn't want to share any space with them and I am certain many other women and children wouldn't want to either. It should also be noted that this same individual wrote on their Twitter feed that the woman in the Council Offices was lucky there was a plastic screen between them and her otherwise they would have pummelled her - those are the exact words they used, threats of violence and showing that violence would have been carried out had a protective screen not prevented it. Note again the sex of the person to which this threat of violence was directed.

So cut the crap about no threat to women, all TW are lovely gentle souls who wouldn't hurt a fly and just want to quietly get on with their lives - time and time again this has been shown for the utter bullshit it is.

Woman are being and will be harmed by this and all those in favour of it know it and when it happens will be deemed as culpable for it as those who inflict the harm.

ArabellaScott · 09/09/2021 13:47

Sturgeon is a consummate performer. She's good at populism, good at flashy gestures (baby boxes, Hate Crime Bill, banning fireworks, etc) that sound bold and impressive but fail to actually tackle the difficult issues (health, infrastructure, transport, education etc). There are also serious questions about the internal structure of the SNP and how democratic and effective that is (cutting the NEC to concentrate power further with Sturgeon & Murrell, for example).

There are major problems in Scotland's day to day running right now - the showmanship of Sturgeon is doing a pretty good job of covering it all up but it won't last forever. Not least because she won't ever even admit the problems that are staring everyone else in the face. It's all spin, too much spin. A country can't run like this.

ArabellaScott · 09/09/2021 13:50

To be fair to Sturgeon, she doesn't give two hoots about LGBTQ+ people.

She is equally unmoved by any of this as she is on women's rights. It's all signalling, all manouevring, all a show.

I no longer know if she genuinely wants independence - her critics divide between those indie supporters who say she wants to cling to power rather than gain independence and those who say she wants to split up the UK at all costs.

What I do think is that she is overseeing some incredibly worrying turns that aren't good things to see in a supposedly democratic government.

merrymouse · 09/09/2021 14:11

So NS thinks it's shameful that Murdo Frasier went and listened to the members of the electorate gathered outside the Parliament. Is that not what MSP's, MP's are supposed to do?

Well yes.

'Fascist' has been thrown about on this thread, but I don't think the people using it really understand what it means - a key characteristic is suppression of opposition, and these were democratically elected members of the parliament interacting with the public.

I've lost track - Was there ever an explanation of why the GRA reform proposals could be supported despite being drawn up by a Conservative government?

GreyhoundG1rl · 09/09/2021 14:42

To be fair to Sturgeon, she doesn't give two hoots about LGBTQ+ people.
Then all this posturing is even more fucking shameful. The little muppet.

NonnyMouse1337 · 09/09/2021 15:07

I've lost track - Was there ever an explanation of why the GRA reform proposals could be supported despite being drawn up by a Conservative government?

Hmmmmm... The usual suspects are always missing...

Jaysmith71 · 09/09/2021 15:20

Politicians are, as a class, horrendously out of touch with what ordinary folk think and have to do every day to get along. Margaret Thatcher in office was an evangelical promoter of what she called "The Great Car Economy," but when she retired, she was most alarmed and disconcerted by having to stop at traffic lights.

The pint of milk/loaf of bread question often catches them, and if it doesn't it's because they've anticipated it and asked their researchers to investigate it and report back.

On cultral issues, they are generally twenty to thirty years behind the times, as evidenced by Lynsey Hoyle's directives on parliamentary dress, where he clearly thinks that 'business attire' is pinstripes and a bowler hat, certainly not Steve Jobs' black jumper and blue jeans, which cannot be said to have held him back.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 09/09/2021 16:09

We are in FWR, are we not!

And Katie has had 3 deletions, has she not?

Has the ban hammer fallen?

It doesn't it count if you aren't GC?

I think we need to know...

Passmeamenuatthetottenham · 09/09/2021 16:25

@ArabellaScott

Sturgeon is a consummate performer. She's good at populism, good at flashy gestures (baby boxes, Hate Crime Bill, banning fireworks, etc) that sound bold and impressive but fail to actually tackle the difficult issues (health, infrastructure, transport, education etc). There are also serious questions about the internal structure of the SNP and how democratic and effective that is (cutting the NEC to concentrate power further with Sturgeon & Murrell, for example).

There are major problems in Scotland's day to day running right now - the showmanship of Sturgeon is doing a pretty good job of covering it all up but it won't last forever. Not least because she won't ever even admit the problems that are staring everyone else in the face. It's all spin, too much spin. A country can't run like this.

Absolutely what I think too.
ScreamingMeMe · 09/09/2021 17:15

@NonnyMouse1337

I've lost track - Was there ever an explanation of why the GRA reform proposals could be supported despite being drawn up by a Conservative government?

Hmmmmm... The usual suspects are always missing...

I don't suppose I'll be getting an answer to my question about Janey Godley either...
RedDogsBeg · 09/09/2021 17:18

Just in case you're still here @CatherinaJTV, would love to hear how thrilled you are to have this person on 'your side' and hand in glove with Nicola and the SNP:

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/7677071/janey-godley-tweet-scandal-racist-black-celebrities/

Not only disablist but hideously racist, misogynistic and sexist, what a winning combination, bet it makes you feel proud.

ScreamingMeMe · 09/09/2021 17:23

@RedDogsBeg

Just in case you're still here *@CatherinaJTV*, would love to hear how thrilled you are to have this person on 'your side' and hand in glove with Nicola and the SNP:

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/7677071/janey-godley-tweet-scandal-racist-black-celebrities/

Not only disablist but hideously racist, misogynistic and sexist, what a winning combination, bet it makes you feel proud.

Oh wow I didn't realise there was more. What an awful, awful woman.
ArabellaScott · 09/09/2021 17:40

Sturgeon has described Jane Godley as her 'alter ego'.

RedDogsBeg · 09/09/2021 17:45

Oh wow I didn't realise there was more. What an awful, awful woman.

Isn't she just ScreamingMeMe, there is no excuse for those racist tweets none whatsoever, JG was in her 50's when she sent them ffs, someone who had been around to witness the appalling racism of the 70's, and JG, of course, is a 'Black Lives Matter' advocate, fucking hypocrite. Those tweets wouldn't look out of place in a KKK handbook, utterly repellent.

Apparently she thought being an outspoken comedian meant she could say whatever she liked. Oh and is saying they were taken out of context, seriously? Out of context racist tweets, hmm, the defence used to defend the indefensible.

I don't know why I'm surprised though, JG is aggressively pro TRA, it seems par for the course.Confused

ScreamingMeMe · 09/09/2021 17:55

@ArabellaScott

Sturgeon has described Jane Godley as her 'alter ego'.
Embarrassing.
NonnyMouse1337 · 09/09/2021 18:03

@ArabellaScott

Sturgeon has described Jane Godley as her 'alter ego'.
😳

Dearie me.

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