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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I think I’m going mad….

358 replies

Iootraw1 · 07/08/2021 21:48

I’ve absolutely had enough of my family bringing up ‘mum’s views’ (which I’ve learnt to keep completely private from them due to previously accusations of bigotry’), and then when I say a single thing in response,, accusing me of being ‘obsessed’ with it and not keeping it to myself!

I feel like I’m going mad. Husband saying he doesn’t know why I’m so obsessed with trans matters and I should keep to myself - I do! I don’t want to share with them because they don’t agree and don’t want to hear it.
Ever since the first time I tried to bring up and got shot down my him and kids I decided I would never mention again and wait for them one day to find out for themselves and be peaked.

But Just once again tonight in response to their accusations (they brought up subject not me) I tried to explain briefly why it opposes women’s rights and homosexual rights and got quickly turned upon. I’ve bought Trans by Helen Joyce now and will just tell them to read it next time (although will no doubt get condemned for buying a ‘transphobic’ book and they will refuse to read it) I feel really down, I can’t even have my own personal opinions and thoughts now without my very own family trying to eek out of me what ‘I really think’ and nose at what I’m looking at over my shoulder (I follow Glinner and Posie and Mars). I’ve bought headphones so they don’t hear it and never share any of it. I have to clear my history in case they search it.

It’s like some weird dystopia we’ve all been forced to enter. I even mentioned the olympics tonight in my defence and they still they said that I imagine all of this and it’s not really happening.

What will it take for they and the general public to wake up and at least listen to women’s concerns? I feel so upset tonight. 😩

OP posts:
Shedbuilder · 08/08/2021 12:33

It is true that J.K. Rowling had engaged in anti-trans rhetoric, and that Helen Joyce is laundering in antisemitic tropes.Attempting to silence the people pointing this out is simply an exercise of power.

Smile You can tell we're winning when all they can do is swear black's white and day's night. And when their grammar falls apart.

andyoldlabour · 08/08/2021 12:33

BluebirdsSong

Could you please give a definition for "Transphobic" and "Bigotry"?
Can you also please clearly provide examples of how JKR was/is bigoted?

BluebirdsSong · 08/08/2021 12:34

Accusing trans people of being misogynistic not wanting to be discriminated against is not a good look either, and yet here you are.

Jorrris · 08/08/2021 12:35

@andyoldlabour

BluebirdsSong

Could you please give a definition for "Transphobic" and "Bigotry"?
Can you also please clearly provide examples of how JKR was/is bigoted?

Give definitions and evidence? How bloody dare you ask 😉
BluebirdsSong · 08/08/2021 12:35

@andyoldlabour

BluebirdsSong

Could you please give a definition for "Transphobic" and "Bigotry"?
Can you also please clearly provide examples of how JKR was/is bigoted?

I could, but we both know you happen go agree with her transphobic rhetoric, so what's the point?
BluebirdsSong · 08/08/2021 12:36

*happen to

FloralBunting · 08/08/2021 12:36

Straw poll - should I use my enormous prvilege as a woman to silence the nasty slurs from the poster who has been attempting to shame lesbians and gay men this morning, as well as throwing pejoratives at me? Or should I just tell them to make their mother a cup of tea and empty the bins?

Jorrris · 08/08/2021 12:37

@BluebirdsSong

Accusing trans people of being misogynistic not wanting to be discriminated against is not a good look either, and yet here you are.
Well, it's not great behaviour on your part for sure, but sadly trans ideology is deeply misogynistic and homophobic. So yep. That's what you support.
Jorrris · 08/08/2021 12:40

Or should I just tell them to make their mother a cup of tea and empty the bins?

Tbh if that was my kid I'd tell them to get a job, move out and look after themselves.

BluebirdsSong · 08/08/2021 12:40

@Jorris
"Well, it's not great behaviour on your part for sure, but sadly trans ideology is deeply misogynistic and homophobic. So yep. That's what you support."

How is it "misogynistic and homophobic" for trans people to live their lives the way they want, and being treated equally while they do?

Waitwhat23 · 08/08/2021 12:44

Wish trans people had the power of wealthy British white women that can literally silence any criticism by wielding institutional power against their critics.

I mean, this has to be a joke right? Let's think of some examples of who is actually being silenced -

  • The GC Critical subreddit being deleted despite many incel and horrific women hating groups still being hosted because of 'freedom of speech'
  • Women being arrested for posting photos of ribbon tied up on a fence
  • Women being doxxed and 'transphobic' social media posts being sent to their employers in an attempt to get them fired.
  • Academics being silenced and 'no platformed' due to their views, even if the event they were due to speak at had nothing to do with that.
  • Major institutions being Stonewalled and curbing people's voices, even after independent analysis (University of Essex for example) concluding that it is unlawful
  • Major institutions just ignoring public consultation (Scottish Government has just done a second consultation on the GRA because they didn't get the responses they wanted the first time).
  • The BBC, that supposed bastion of impartiality, threating police action against those with the 'wrong' opinion.

There are many many more examples but in particular for this OP, the chilling effect that means that you can even hold an unvocalised opinion in your own home without being told to 're-educate' yourself.

Remind me, has JKR actually sued anyone? At all? Or has she put politely worded statements that people might want to re-consider posting vile statements such as she's a danger to children?

TinselAngel · 08/08/2021 12:44

It is true that J.K. Rowling had engaged in anti-trans rhetoric, and that Helen Joyce is laundering in antisemitic tropes.

The accusations that were taken off Twitter were much more specific than this but I'm not in the habit of repeating libel.

Waitwhat23 · 08/08/2021 12:45

I could, but we both know you happen go agree with her transphobic rhetoric, so what's the point?

Ah, no debate's successor - no evidence!

MrsOvertonsWindow · 08/08/2021 12:47

I could, but we both know you happen go agree with her transphobic rhetoric, so what's the point?

Same old same old. There's never an answer. Gin

BatmansBat · 08/08/2021 12:47

It is not misogynistic and homophobic for transpeople to want to get on with their lives.

I find it unusual that some transpeople consider showing semi erect penises in the faces of little girls “getting on with their lives”. Could they find a way of living their lives that didn’t involve exposing their penises? Especially to little girls?

I find it odd that transpeople who have used their penis to rape women should be allowed in female prisons. Could they serve their sentence for sexual assault in dignity and safety somewhere else?

And I find the suggestions that a transwoman raped their 80-year old mother due to lesbians not giving them sex a strange argument. Does living their lives include being owed sex (with their penises) by a group of people who doesn’t like penises?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 08/08/2021 12:48

That Gin was meant to be a Grin - but maybe it's more apt

nauticant · 08/08/2021 12:48

Considering that the OP's kids are acting to shut down her ability to express her views, someone here has picked up that baton and is really running with it.

Unless the OP has just been busy, it's not surprising they're not participating in their own thread.

Helleofabore · 08/08/2021 12:49

@TinselAngel

They should definitely not allow billionaires to browbeat people into deleting tweets critical of their bigotry.

Oh I see, I think you have misunderstood the purpose of these laws- it's to prevent people saying stuff that isnt true.

It is all very twisty isn't it....

Prevent people from lying outrageously because they hate someone now becomes browbeating people into deleting tweets critical/openly lies of their bigotry/legally protected beliefs that have never been proven or even adequately argued successfully as being hateful.

Anyway, please keep posting the live demonstration of examples of tactic used to silence women discussing the conflicts in their rights. There have been rather a few that show the misogyny of those tactics. And shows very clearly the hypocrisy.

I am sure that you are aware that there are many, many readers who read these threads and make up their own minds. The lack of any evidence, the tired old trope that is used for arguments, the over reliance on emotional manipulation, distraction, dismissal, projection and finger pointing is a great way to show the superficiality of those arguments.

Keep doing the good work.

BluebirdsSong · 08/08/2021 12:50

@MrsOvertonsWindow

I could, but we both know you happen go agree with her transphobic rhetoric, so what's the point?

Same old same old. There's never an answer. Gin

There's often an answer, that you then opt to ignore and pretend you never heard.

Here's a list of J.K. Rowling's transphobic statements: www.glaad.org/gap/jk-rowling

Shedbuilder · 08/08/2021 12:51

@TinselAngel

It is true that J.K. Rowling had engaged in anti-trans rhetoric, and that Helen Joyce is laundering in antisemitic tropes.

The accusations that were taken off Twitter were much more specific than this but I'm not in the habit of repeating libel.

I presume JKR reads Mumsnet. And I imagine Helen Joyce reads MN too. Helen's always said that it's the legal system that will eventually bring down the ideology and the TRAs.
Waitwhat23 · 08/08/2021 12:53

Here's JKR's essay. Please tell us specifically where she states 'anti trans' statements - www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

Because she doesn't.

FloralBunting · 08/08/2021 12:55

Ah, so JKRs 'transphobia' according to that list is correctly noting that sex exists and matters, and a few outright lies that were completely made up about her pen name.

Sophoclesthefox · 08/08/2021 12:56

it takes a particular kind of person to come onto a thread where an OP has asked for support with an issue that is troubling her to the point that she’s doubting her own sanity, and tell her that she’s brought it on herself and deserves it for being just like Hitler, and then proceed to throw round the accusations that everyone who supports her in requiring her teens to be respectful is just like Hitler, too, and they don’t deserve the protection of the laws of the land in the same way as everyone else.

It’s not a nuanced take, is it? Fails on all three branches of “is it true, is it helpful, is it kind?”.

Slow clap.

Fistbump of support to you, OP. It sounds so tough for you right now.

mollythemeerkat · 08/08/2021 12:56

No, but you endorse wealthy, privileged individuals like JKR using their wealth and power to silence their critics:
who exactly is doing the silencing? I think we know.
And just endlessly repeating that everyone is transphobic, does not an effective argument make.

Waitwhat23 · 08/08/2021 12:59

They've just taken parts of her essay and put 'incorrectly' in front of them! There's no attempt to analyse anything or consider how eroding single sex spaces will impact on women. I'd actually have more respect for that tripe if they actually engaged with the points she raised and addressed them.

And yes, the Robert Galbraith thing has been extensively de-bunked. Almost as if they have to cling on to something...