I think I’m going mad….

[Iootraw1]

I’ve absolutely had enough of my family bringing up ‘mum’s views’ (which I’ve learnt to keep completely private from them due to previously accusations of bigotry’), and then when I say a single thing in response,, accusing me of being ‘obsessed’ with it and not keeping it to myself!

I feel like I’m going mad. Husband saying he doesn’t know why I’m so obsessed with trans matters and I should keep to myself - I do! I don’t want to share with them because they don’t agree and don’t want to hear it.
Ever since the first time I tried to bring up and got shot down my him and kids I decided I would never mention again and wait for them one day to find out for themselves and be peaked.

But Just once again tonight in response to their accusations (they brought up subject not me) I tried to explain briefly why it opposes women’s rights and homosexual rights and got quickly turned upon. I’ve bought Trans by Helen Joyce now and will just tell them to read it next time (although will no doubt get condemned for buying a ‘transphobic’ book and they will refuse to read it) I feel really down, I can’t even have my own personal opinions and thoughts now without my very own family trying to eek out of me what ‘I really think’ and nose at what I’m looking at over my shoulder (I follow Glinner and Posie and Mars). I’ve bought headphones so they don’t hear it and never share any of it. I have to clear my history in case they search it.

It’s like some weird dystopia we’ve all been forced to enter. I even mentioned the olympics tonight in my defence and they still they said that I imagine all of this and it’s not really happening.

What will it take for they and the general public to wake up and at least listen to women’s concerns? I feel so upset tonight. 😩

How is it "misogynistic and homophobic" for trans people to live their lives the way they want, and being treated equally while they do?

I think the homophobic has been very well covered on the other thread. Of course, you may simply just choose to ignore any of lesbians who have been trying to explain to you how it harms them to have their language changed and their spaces accessed by males.

The ignoring of their views .... well that could be a great example of misogyny really couldn't it.

If you really want to discuss the misogynistic views, let us know. We can start with sports as it is very topical, safeguarding has been raised.

How a recently transitioned male can think that they are serving female's well by taking a women's officer role to influence policy to ensure that female's needs are well considered in those policies.... that is another good starting point.

Shall we have some actual discussion. And can you support your points with evidence. Or just more emotive speak seeking to manipulate rather than actually persuade.

@Waitwhat23

They've just taken parts of her essay and put 'incorrectly' in front of them! There's no attempt to analyse anything or consider how eroding single sex spaces will impact on women. I'd actually have more respect for that tripe if they actually engaged with the points she raised and addressed them.

And yes, the Robert Galbraith thing has been extensively de-bunked. Almost as if they have to cling on to something...

I think the difference between asserting something and providing evidence for your claim is a little lost on our eager visitor.

This thread seems to be getting a bit out of hand. I got bored with the attempts at derailing it from parental advice back on page 5, & jumped to page 11 where I find it's onto JKR. -eye roll-

I just want to add to those who are focussing on the real problem, which is stroppy teenagers. I've seen two families go through this, years ago. It matters not a jot what the excuse is to act like your parents are know-nothing pains in the arse, the behaviour is the same. In one case I knew, it was mild but noticeable, so fairly liveable with until the kid grew out of it; in the other it was so awful that it was deeply embarrassing to everybody in the room as the young teenage boy took out his frustrations by deriding his parents at every opportunity, in front of guests. I felt so sorry for his parents (he picked on both of them constantly) as it seemed a miserable way to live.

As I said, the important thing to note is that this was all long enough ago that trans rights arguments weren't even a twinkle in anybody's eye, so the problem isn't trans anything (certainly not JKR), it's teenagers.

@FloralBunting

Wish trans people had the power of wealthy British white women that can literally silence any criticism by wielding institutional power against their critics.

🤣🤣🤣

The irony.

Actuslly, that's sonething you could do. Basket of ironing.

Or welding. I can give a quick lesson on how to do a bit of spot welding, if that helps. Not sure about institutional power, though, where do I pick up my share of that, please? Is it like GCSEs?

@BluebirdsSong

Accusing trans people of being misogynistic not wanting to be discriminated against is not a good look either, and yet here you are.

That's not why we say they're misogynistic or homophobic. Another disingenuous framing by you. You're on quite a roll!

[quote BluebirdsSong]@Jorris
"Well, it's not great behaviour on your part for sure, but sadly trans ideology is deeply misogynistic and homophobic. So yep. That's what you support."

How is it "misogynistic and homophobic" for trans people to live their lives the way they want, and being treated equally while they do?[/quote]
Nobody gets to live their life exactly the way they want, if by doing so this infringes on the rights of others.
For example, the desire of male prisoners convicted of rape to be housed with female prisoners, infringes the rights of said female prisoners to be safe and not to be subjected to rape and sexual assault. There is at least one case where we know this very scenario has happened (Karen White). You are suggesting there is no conflict in this scenario?

It is deeply misogynistic to suggest that the rights of female prisoners to safety, privacy and dignity should come second to the preferences of convicted male sex offenders who identify as transwomen.

It is also homophobic to suggest that gay men and lesbians should feel obliged to have intimate relationships with people of the opposite sex, whom they are not sexually attracted to, so that said people feel validated in their chosen identity. Unfortunately, this is what some TRAs are supporting (google the cotton ceiling or the boxer ceiling).

Anyway, I do hope the op is ok. I feel quite concerned for her.

@BlueBlazerBlack

It is also homophobic to suggest that gay men and lesbians should feel obliged to have intimate relationships with people of the opposite sex, whom they are not sexually attracted to, so that said people feel validated in their chosen identity. Unfortunately, this is what some TRAs are supporting (google the cotton ceiling or the boxer ceiling).

Who's saying anything about "being obliged to"?

Some feminists somewhere said "kill all men", does that mean the entirety of feminism should be condemned for being androcidal?

Do you think lesbians should accept translesbians as sexual partners? Or do you think they are transphobic for not accepting translesbians as potential partners?

Hopefully if this is the OP's teen she's getting a quiet Sunday while they rage and disrespect woman on here instead.

@Jorrris

Do you think lesbians should accept translesbians as sexual partners? Or do you think they are transphobic for not accepting translesbians as potential partners?

I think trans lesbians belong in lesbian spaces, and whether or not you're attracted to individual trans women is entirely your business.

You can turn down every single person you are not attracted to at your discretion.

But making it a point to announce you won't date trans people at all is indeed transphobic.

But why should someone who is not a lesbian be in a lesbian space ?

Because lesbian does mean sex female sexually attracted to sexual female

Or it wouldn't be a sexuality would it ?

I have an 18 yo ds and a 16yo de
I also experienced this
I asked DS if he'd date a trans women then laughed 'woke in the streets, terf in the sheets eh?' And kept laughing
With DD I spent several long careful conversations explaining to her that she, my beautiful girl, soon to be a woman, was the reason for my rage. She got it. They both do now. If DH accuses me of 'going on' I ridicule him. I'm a woman and I'll decide what I read, what I invest in and what I discuss. They will be respectful or fuck off frankly 🤷‍♀️

No respect for women's boundaries.

But making it a point to announce you won't date trans people at all is indeed transphobic.

Insisting that same sex attracted people should consider dating someone who not the same sex as they are is indeed horrendously homophobic, coercive and abusive.

But making it a point to announce you won't date trans people at all is indeed transphobic.

Why is it transphobic for someone to say they wouldn't date a trans person?

I'm heterosexual and attracted to biological males- I wouldn't be attracted to or want to date either a trans man as they are female, and I wouldn't be attracted to a trans woman as I wouldn't be comfortable with or find a male trying to present as a woman attractive.

That is my sexual preference- I cannot help who I am attracted to. How is it transphobic? I'm a woman who is not attracted to women- this doesn't make me homophobic.

@RedDogsBeg

But making it a point to announce you won't date trans people at all is indeed transphobic.

Insisting that same sex attracted people should consider dating someone who not the same sex as they are is indeed horrendously homophobic, coercive and abusive.

This. Entirely!

@midgemagneto

But why should someone who is not a lesbian be in a lesbian space ?

Because lesbian does mean sex female sexually attracted to sexual female

Or it wouldn't be a sexuality would it ?

Because you do not get to decide that a trans woman is "not a lesbian".

You do not get to police and control other people's identities.

I think trans lesbians belong in lesbian spaces, and whether or not you're attracted to individual trans women is entirely your business.

So you are advocating on behalf of heterosexual adult males who identify as 'trans' and 'lesbian' and you disregard the boundaries of same sex oriented adult females who are lesbians?

People are entirely free to announce who they do not want to date. Everyone has preferences in addition to their sexual orientation. Coercing women that they should have neither is deeply concerning behaviour.

@RedDogsBeg

But making it a point to announce you won't date trans people at all is indeed transphobic.

Insisting that same sex attracted people should consider dating someone who not the same sex as they are is indeed horrendously homophobic, coercive and abusive.

I don't care. And I don't see why I should care what you consider homophobic any more than you care what I consider transphobic.

Insisting that same sex attracted people should consider dating someone who not the same sex as they are is indeed horrendously homophobic, coercive and abusive.

This ^^

Relevant thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

@R0wantrees
"So you are advocating on behalf of heterosexual adult males who identify as 'trans' and 'lesbian'"

Trans lesbians are not "heterosexual". Trans women's attraction to women includes other trans women. That's not "heterosexual" in any way.

I think trans lesbians belong in lesbian spaces, and whether or not you're attracted to individual trans women is entirely your business.

So you think males identifying as women belong in lesbian spaces.

You can turn down every single person you are not attracted to at your discretion.

Of course

But making it a point to announce you won't date trans people at all is indeed transphobic

I wouldn't date anyone who has extreme body modifications /are truth deniers / think it's ok to destroy women and childrens safeguards. I also wouldnt date people who believe the earth is flat.

I guess it must be shockingly disappointing to find ones dating pool shrinking so dramatically, that all that's left is to accuse people of transphobia in an attempt to shame them in to dating you.