I think I’m going mad….

[Iootraw1]

I’ve absolutely had enough of my family bringing up ‘mum’s views’ (which I’ve learnt to keep completely private from them due to previously accusations of bigotry’), and then when I say a single thing in response,, accusing me of being ‘obsessed’ with it and not keeping it to myself!

I feel like I’m going mad. Husband saying he doesn’t know why I’m so obsessed with trans matters and I should keep to myself - I do! I don’t want to share with them because they don’t agree and don’t want to hear it.
Ever since the first time I tried to bring up and got shot down my him and kids I decided I would never mention again and wait for them one day to find out for themselves and be peaked.

But Just once again tonight in response to their accusations (they brought up subject not me) I tried to explain briefly why it opposes women’s rights and homosexual rights and got quickly turned upon. I’ve bought Trans by Helen Joyce now and will just tell them to read it next time (although will no doubt get condemned for buying a ‘transphobic’ book and they will refuse to read it) I feel really down, I can’t even have my own personal opinions and thoughts now without my very own family trying to eek out of me what ‘I really think’ and nose at what I’m looking at over my shoulder (I follow Glinner and Posie and Mars). I’ve bought headphones so they don’t hear it and never share any of it. I have to clear my history in case they search it.

It’s like some weird dystopia we’ve all been forced to enter. I even mentioned the olympics tonight in my defence and they still they said that I imagine all of this and it’s not really happening.

What will it take for they and the general public to wake up and at least listen to women’s concerns? I feel so upset tonight. 😩

Uncommon Ground Media
Dr Em
Are Transactivists Negging Feminism and the LGB?
June 4, 2020
(extract)
‘Negging’ is when predatory men insult women to lower their self-esteem in order to manipulate them. Has this been happening on the scale of a movement?
‘You are transphobic!’, ‘That is transphobic!’, ‘TERF!’.

Everything and everyone at some point is transphobic, not inclusionary enough. Women who understand that women as a class face sex-based discrimination are called ‘Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists’ and the acronym is treated as a heinous mark by the woke. Similarly, those who know that lesbians don’t have penises, or that same-sex attraction is real are branded ‘TERF’. (continues)

The manosphere has been grabbing media attention as ‘The sexist world has become a recruiting ground for potential mass shooters’, ‘We need to talk about the online radicalisation of young, white men’ and supposedly the manosphere communities are becoming more toxic, showing nihilistic and extreme anti-women ideologies according to recent studies. Negging is a method of the men’s rights movement. We see ‘negging’ used en mass by the sex industry as its advocates argue that those who oppose the sale of mostly female flesh to men are alleged to be ‘sex-negative’, those who oppose filmed sexual violence against women (porn) are supposedly ‘sex negative’, ‘prudish’ or ‘frigid’. Why would negging not be utilized by trans rights activists?

Negging is using a negative comment to initiate contact and force a woman to prove it is untrue, it belittles a woman’s confidence and makes women desire the accuser’s approval. This permits a way in for the manipulator and silences that gut feeling that something is not right. Described by Gavin De Becker as ‘typecasting’ the negative label compels a challenge, he used the real occasion of a rapist alleging a woman was too proud to accept assistance to gain access to her car. The woman’s desire to be liked by the man and not thought ‘proud’ prevented her from asking the natural safety questions in her mind – who is he, why is he here, do I feel comfortable?." (continues)

uncommongroundmedia.com/are-transactivists-negging-feminism-and-the-lgb/

Negging’ is when predatory men insult women to lower their self-esteem in order to manipulate them. Has this been happening on the scale of a movement?

Yes. It's not working anymore.

I am still waiting for Blue to tell us why they have claimed the mantle for speaking for trans people the way they have.

Why exactly are they here speaking as though they speak for all trans people? Using racist and homophobic trope.

Yet they also seem to have forgotten to say anything at all about female trans people too. Rather sexist behaviour that.

Maybe Blues mum has changed the WiFi password.

Oooh, OP, there's an idea for you. Cut off their wifi access.

YOU CANNOT COMPEL OTHERS. That isn't transphobia, it's our human rights

Thank you Maya Forstater for striking a blow against compelled thinking and beliefs.

I suspect they have gone to try to find more trope to try out on us.

They're now saying homosexuals should be shunned.

I mean, I haven't had this much homophobic battering since I was debating calvinist evangelicals.

@FloralBunting

They're now saying homosexuals should be shunned.

I mean, I haven't had this much homophobic battering since I was debating calvinist evangelicals.

And now calvinist evangelicals are all in your corner, cheering you on against the "trans agenda". Funny how things change.

Yeah, but they're in your corner on me headed for condemnation for being a homosexual.

Oopsie.

@Shedbuilder

Oooh, OP, there's an idea for you. Cut off their wifi access.

Or change the password to ILoveJKRowling or something

Or change the password to ILoveJKRowling or something

Love this 😁

Teens are very vulnerable to peer pressure and desperate to rebel against their parents (especially mothers). Social media constantly chants the mantras and demands that kids don't educate themselves on the rights conflicts and that is supported by the bias in the once impartial/progressive media like the BBC and the Guardian and the pushing of gender ideology in schools. My teen fell for the JKR is a transphobe narrative but did finally read her essay after we talked. We also had a falling out over LGB Alliance but we talked through the reasons they have been vilified by trans activists. She is starting to read into the issues now and isn't so quick to just accept what teens are being fed. But it is an uphill struggle.

Trans lesbians are not "heterosexual". Trans women's attraction to women includes other trans women. That's not "heterosexual" in any way.

I agree with you on the above point.

A woman in a relationship with a woman is a homosexual relationship, as they are both of the same sex, female.

A transwoman in a relationship with a transwoman is a homosexual relationship, as they are both of the same sex, male.

A woman in a relationship with a transwoman is in a heterosexual relationship as they are of different sexes, female and male.

See how this works?

God I love you vipers. Hope OP is ok.

BluebirdsSong

"I could, but we both know you happen go agree with her transphobic rhetoric, so what's the point?"

Just one, itsy, bitsy example. Go on, you know you want to

BluebirdsSong

There will be lurkers on here who won't have made their mind up. We've managed to get quite a few to come off the fence. Maybe you can do the same if your arguments and evidence are strong enough.

Because you do not get to decide that a trans woman is "not a lesbian".

We don’t get to decide? What an odd idea. Of course we don’t.

It’s simply a fact that men are not lesbians.

It may annoy you that you have no power to change facts, and that the facts are against you, but there it is.

Lesbian has a specific meaning. You don't get to just change that to mean something else. Lesbian sexuality is protected in law.

Get another word.

What a way to make kids not just be embarrassed by you but also despise you.

Well, I am so, so surprised with such a jibe! Seems 'be kind' is a big old pretence. You'd have to be some nasty piece of work to come out with that to a mother in relation to her two children.

Op. The children I would be able to understand. They are impressionable and there are many people online, and even getting into schools, who are perpetuating lots of anti science stuff. In all areas of life.

The OH is the one which would trouble me most. At first, mine didn't know what I was going on about. Told him about the male sex offenders being put in women's prisons in Ireland. Told him how this wasn't one offs, but the law being changed and you can fill in an A4 form in Ireland and you change from a man to a woman in law; with all the evasion of safeguarding pertinent to males that entails. It won't be rescinded even if a person is a rapist or sex offender. He couldn't believe that males of any persuasion, never mind rapists and sexual abusers, would be locked up with women. How women would be deliberately made vulnerable like that. However, we are aware that the Irish state and previous Irish governments has form on allowing the brutalisation of women and children. Or not acting to stop it. The Irish state effectively allowed it to take place as they didn't police, properly inspect or safeguard the children which were looked after by religious orders. The police, agents of the state, even returned escaped adult women to 'house arrest' in Magdalen laundries. Women who had committed no crimes. We know that people who did not have good intentions insinuated themselves into organisations and jobs for nefarious reasons. This happened in Ireland because the church had a central role in education and care. So we don't think that Roderic O'Gorman and his mates are new in their attitude to women and girls.

Sports and the olympics was the final straw for my OH on his realisation about what is happening. He knows that even in same sex events like boxing that there are different categories for a reason.

We are completely of the 'wear what you want and don't be limited by stereotypes' variety. He knows however that biological sex is immutable. He is a scientist and doesn't fall for young earth creationism, vaccination being a bad thing, or the earth being flat either. Fairly immune to fads and ideologies.

I get him to read some stuff now and then. He now has much less of a regard for David Walsh who thinks it is all fine and dandy for males to be able to compete against women (with male levels of testosterone which would be unnatural for women), and as long as the women can't dope everything is fine according to Walsh. Would yours actually read about what is happening and how women's rights are being diminished? Mine really got the Irish Women's Lobby podcast, chaired by Christine Gaffney, with Iseult White and other speakers.

@MrsOvertonsWindow

Hopefully if this is the OP's teen she's getting a quiet Sunday while they rage and disrespect woman on here instead.

Yes, this is an option, OP. Send the kids over here and let us have a wee chat with them.

Just to clarify what I said about the church. it happened because the church had a central role in education and care in Ireland. This was because abusers who wish to exploit others place themselves in positions where that is possible and/or where they can evade safeguarding that is applied to others. Also, as the Irish state (gov't etc.) didn't take their responsibility seriously, it went on without oversight.

It is not simply that it was the church. The state failed to protect and safeguard Irish citizens. Or take action against abuses. Abusers could act with impunity.

LangCleg wrote Thu 21-Feb-19

"How did the scandal of TV entertainers grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of Catholic priests grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of on-street gangs grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

Because if you create a sacred caste of any group and silence anyone asking questions about individuals on behalf of the sacred caste, abusers will see, infiltrate, and groom and exploit children. That''s how."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3512177-Julia-Long-asking-Munro-Bergdorf-about-child-exploitation?pg=12

Here's thought experiment. I know a woman who has always had relationships with men. She is now in a relationship with someone who (I'm going to use the language of a certain side of history) identifies as female but was AMAB. Wears stereotypically male clothes, no change in behaviour, dress or attitude at all at the time of transition. No surgery.

Is the person I know straight, bi or lesbian? Because I have to say I find it illogical that this woman's sexuality changes based on the identification of her partner. Particularly as the young people I know have friends changing gender monthly. Do the people shagging them change sexuality dependent on that? What if their partner identifies differently but doesn't share that? Their sexuality changes without their knowledge?

I know young people just say they're pan and shag whomever they fancy (partly based on sex) but it seems illogical. Maybe it isn't so I'd love to have it explained.