I think I’m going mad….

[Iootraw1]

I’ve absolutely had enough of my family bringing up ‘mum’s views’ (which I’ve learnt to keep completely private from them due to previously accusations of bigotry’), and then when I say a single thing in response,, accusing me of being ‘obsessed’ with it and not keeping it to myself!

I feel like I’m going mad. Husband saying he doesn’t know why I’m so obsessed with trans matters and I should keep to myself - I do! I don’t want to share with them because they don’t agree and don’t want to hear it.
Ever since the first time I tried to bring up and got shot down my him and kids I decided I would never mention again and wait for them one day to find out for themselves and be peaked.

But Just once again tonight in response to their accusations (they brought up subject not me) I tried to explain briefly why it opposes women’s rights and homosexual rights and got quickly turned upon. I’ve bought Trans by Helen Joyce now and will just tell them to read it next time (although will no doubt get condemned for buying a ‘transphobic’ book and they will refuse to read it) I feel really down, I can’t even have my own personal opinions and thoughts now without my very own family trying to eek out of me what ‘I really think’ and nose at what I’m looking at over my shoulder (I follow Glinner and Posie and Mars). I’ve bought headphones so they don’t hear it and never share any of it. I have to clear my history in case they search it.

It’s like some weird dystopia we’ve all been forced to enter. I even mentioned the olympics tonight in my defence and they still they said that I imagine all of this and it’s not really happening.

What will it take for they and the general public to wake up and at least listen to women’s concerns? I feel so upset tonight. 😩

So if a lesbian announces she does not want to have sex with a transwoman, that's transphobic? Do you not hear yourself @BluebirdsSong? What you are suggesting is basically policing people's sexual orientations

I don't care. And I don't see why I should care what you consider homophobic any more than you care what I consider transphobic.

I don't really care much about what you think, that is true. But your presence here is useful.

I don't care. And I don't see why I should care what you consider homophobic any more than you care what I consider transphobic.

It's blindingly obvious you don't care about women or homosexuals and that says everything anyone needs to know about you.

a transwoman lesbian is by definition male

lesbians dont do men, they are same sex attracted, and the endless efforts by some TRA to bully them into doing dick is one of the most chillingly misogynistic aspects of this whole awful business

#nothank you

[quote BluebirdsSong]@R0wantrees
"So you are advocating on behalf of heterosexual adult males who identify as 'trans' and 'lesbian'"

Trans lesbians are not "heterosexual". Trans women's attraction to women includes other trans women. That's not "heterosexual" in any way.[/quote]
Except in the 'male attracted to females' way, which is the entirety of the definition.

Trans lesbians are not "heterosexual". Trans women's attraction to women includes other trans women. That's not "heterosexual" in any way.

Equality Act 2010
Sexual orientation is one of the nine protected characteristics.

UK Government
Commentary on Sections
Part 2: Equality: Key Concepts
Chapter 1: Protected characteristics
(extract)
"Section 12: Sexual orientation
Effect
55.This section defines the protected characteristic of sexual orientation as being a person’s sexual orientation towards:

people of the same sex as him or her (in other words the person is a gay man or a lesbian)

people of the opposite sex from him or her (the person is heterosexual)

people of both sexes (the person is bisexual).

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/12/notes

Except in the 'male attracted to females' way, which is the entirety of the definition.

Yep.

@FloralBunting
"Except in the 'male attracted to females' way, which is the entirety of the definition."

So, trans women temporarily count as "females" specifically for the purpose of classifying trans lesbians' attraction to trans women as "heterosexual"?

[quote BluebirdsSong]@FloralBunting
"Except in the 'male attracted to females' way, which is the entirety of the definition."

So, trans women temporarily count as "females" specifically for the purpose of classifying trans lesbians' attraction to trans women as "heterosexual"?[/quote]
No, they would be the bisexuals, if they're also attracted to females.

Do keep up.

So what is female?

Are humans the only mammal which doesn't obey the usual pattern of innies and outies ?

I'm sure debating terms will sort it out this time.

So, trans women temporarily count as "females" specifically for the purpose of classifying trans lesbians' attraction to trans women as "heterosexual"?

There is no 'counting as female'. People are either female or male. If two adult males are romantically/sexually involved this is a homosexual relationship. Those involved may be gay or bisexual but neither are female sex or lesbians.

I learned an interesting historical point recently (sorry for derail, but worth sharing I think) when visiting a museum dedicated to female authors.
Slavery in the UK would have been abolished decades earlier than it actually was if women had had the vote. Just came back into my mind when reading a post further upthread.

@endofthelinefinally

I learned an interesting historical point recently (sorry for derail, but worth sharing I think) when visiting a museum dedicated to female authors. Slavery in the UK would have been abolished decades earlier than it actually was if women had had the vote. Just came back into my mind when reading a post further upthread.

That is interesting endofthelinefinally.

Some feminists somewhere said "kill all men", does that mean the entirety of feminism should be condemned for being androcidal?

No they didn't. Don't be silly.

@endofthelinefinally

I learned an interesting historical point recently (sorry for derail, but worth sharing I think) when visiting a museum dedicated to female authors. Slavery in the UK would have been abolished decades earlier than it actually was if women had had the vote. Just came back into my mind when reading a post further upthread.

Oh, me too for a [merail] for which I apologise but I wanted to share this summary and recommendation for an interesting book that I've yet to see (Woody Holton: Liberty is sweet ):

Article: The Declaration of Independence’s debt to Black America
When African Americans allied themselves with the British, the Patriots were enraged, and they acted.

“African Americans played a crucial, if often overlooked, role in their White owners’ and neighbors’ decision to declare independence from Britain.”
…
But by shifting the focus of the Declaration of Independence from states’ rights to human rights, abolitionists and feminists made it one of the most successful freedom documents ever composed.

twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1411711260140392450

archive link to the Washington Post piece: archive.is/nwMwP

I'm sure it's supremely messy but I'm always fascinated when there are interesting perspectives on historical events. [/merail]

Book: www.amazon.co.uk/Liberty-Sweet-History-American-Revolution/dp/1476750378/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Oh gosh, the gift that keeps on giving.

I do think that PP should at least have a background education in scientific fact. Maybe this isn't taught at school anymore.

You cannot have a male bodied lesbian. Being a lesbian is a sexual orientation (a protected characteristic), where a female sex person is attracted to a female sexed person. It is homophobic to expect them to be attracted to anyone with a penis.

You see the protected characteristic of gender reassignment IS NOT more important than the other 8 protected characteristics. This is where you are getting it completely wrong.

They are equal but separate.

Stop bullying lesbians. Or women. Or children.

Be whatever you want, but have some respect.

We do not believe in your ideology and WE DO NOT HAVE TO.

YOU CANNOT COMPEL OTHERS. That isn't transphobia, it's our human rights.

I think @BluebirdsSong's contributions to the thread have been incredibly useful.

Incredibly useful for bringing more sunlight ☀️ and showing just how misogynistic and homophobic this damaging ideology truly is.

Is it science or English teaching that is missing?

It's quite unusual to have a word that means 2 completely different things depending on the context after all

Like to me female is the same concept in humans snd other animals, but clearly to done it isn't

What other nouns in English work that way?

@TinselAngel

Some feminists somewhere said "kill all men", does that mean the entirety of feminism should be condemned for being androcidal?

No they didn't. Don't be silly.

Lol. www.google.com/search?q=%22kill+all+men%22

Interesting thread. Started with a woman upset that her family are giving her a hard time for supporting women's and girls rights, and now has descended into posters trying to shame lesbians out of being same-sex attracted.
This is the modern trans movement in a thread.

Yep, it's really quite something isn't it. Woman seeks help and support. Teen male arrogantly derails for own gains. I hope this isn't ops son. For her sake. Imagine having a child like this.