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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Prisons Judicial Review: Judgement

468 replies

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 02/07/2021 09:02

It's finally here...
The judgement in the prisons judicial review R (FDJ) v SSJ
will be handed down by email at 10.30 am today...

Here is a reminder of what it was about:

www.keep-prisons-single-sex.org.uk/judicial-review-campaign-update

OP posts:
OffYouGoNow · 03/07/2021 13:05

Male prisons and mix sexed prisons.

They're higher than men.

The judge also acknowledged this in his judgment.

Why are transwomen more likely to be sex offenders than men?

I wonder of there's a clue in the "ignoring women's boundaries of single-sex spaces" issue.

So - the adult males who are less likely to commit sex attacks on women and girls are lawfully excluded from intimate female spaces, but adult males who are the most likely to commit sex attacks on women and girls are lawfully included.

We have been banging on about this fact on this board for years.

The police, judiciary, hone office, nhs, charities, ‘feminist’ organisations - ALL complicit fuckers.

ChristinaXYZ · 03/07/2021 13:06

there is a good thread on twitter explaining how this judgement proves rights are pie:

twitter.com/RichardJGarside/status/1410917867990704129

teawamutu · 03/07/2021 13:17

I'm not depressed like I normally am the day after a setback.

Partly because we literally couldn't buy the publicity this loss has given us. And partly because I'm more in a 'fuck this shit we riot at dawn' space.

Judicial reviews don't work for us because so much of this crap is legal. So let's fucking sue.

Can we crowdfund for the victim? Can we set up the GC Law Project and have a fighting fund for cases?

And if it's legal, the law must change. Writing to my MP today.

ScreamingMeMe · 03/07/2021 14:20

@toffeebutterpopcorn

There will be law cases. Too late of course. I also remember cases in the states where prisoners contracted AIDS in jail after being raped because those with it weren’t treated and those who were assaulted weren’t listened to or protected.
That's horrific Sad
Clymene · 03/07/2021 14:24

Has anyone posted the James Kirkup article yet?

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-court-judgement-that-confirms-women-pay-for-trans-rights

I think this, more than any of the other judgements, demonstrates that the GRA is an absolute nonsense and that there is no way that you can ever protect women if the law says that men can change sex.

ScreamingMeMe · 03/07/2021 14:28

She also mentioned a case where a prisoner tried to change his name to 'God Almighty' so that the officers would have to address his as such

That was Andrew Burns, a very dangerous prisoner who now identifies as a woman.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/1492364/transgender-prisoner-tiffany-scott-andrew-burns-dangerous-sheriff/amp/

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 03/07/2021 14:30

@Clymene

Has anyone posted the James Kirkup article yet?

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-court-judgement-that-confirms-women-pay-for-trans-rights

I think this, more than any of the other judgements, demonstrates that the GRA is an absolute nonsense and that there is no way that you can ever protect women if the law says that men can change sex.

Yes, it's posted upthread and there's an archive version for those who don't have access.
Manderleyagain · 03/07/2021 14:35

For people writing to their mp's about this.

The gra 2004 was under a labour government. To be fair they had to respond to the European Court ruling, but the act is badly worded.

The EA 2010 was passed right at the end of a Labour government. Although it mainly brought in existing law, some of the bad situation we find ourself in now could have been avoided at that point, by properly dealing with how it interacted with the gra, and how parts of the act interact with each other.

The EA statutory code of practice was passed in 2011 by the Conservative led coalition government. The wording compounded some of the problems, making it more difficult to use the exemptions which allow tw to be excluded from female services if proportionate, as the act allows.

The policies which we object to on this board have often been introduced since 2010, ie under a Conservative led government. The moj prison policy is lawful, but a policy which is better for women could also be legal. It is a choice made by a Conservative government.

So, depending on the party of your mp, you might want to point out how their party has contributed to allowing intact male born sex offenders being placed in prison with women.

Datun · 03/07/2021 14:43

So - the adult males who are less likely to commit sex attacks on women and girls are lawfully excluded from intimate female spaces, but adult males who are the most likely to commit sex attacks on women and girls are lawfully included.

Yesssssss. Ffs

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 14:58

I have been invited onto the Neil Oliver Show on GB News at 8.00 pm tonight to discuss yesterday's judgement and what needs to be done for women in prison.

OP posts:
Welloff · 03/07/2021 15:00

well done Keep.

Looking forward to finding out who you are!

Make sure you haven't got any mumsnet posts about the rest of your personal life before you out yourself :)

ValancyRedfern · 03/07/2021 15:02

Good luck kpss
What should I Google to contribute to your fundraising?

Ninkanink · 03/07/2021 15:05

@teawamutu

I'm not depressed like I normally am the day after a setback.

Partly because we literally couldn't buy the publicity this loss has given us. And partly because I'm more in a 'fuck this shit we riot at dawn' space.

Judicial reviews don't work for us because so much of this crap is legal. So let's fucking sue.

Can we crowdfund for the victim? Can we set up the GC Law Project and have a fighting fund for cases?

And if it's legal, the law must change. Writing to my MP today.

This. 100%.
KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 15:09

@Welloff

well done Keep.

Looking forward to finding out who you are!

Make sure you haven't got any mumsnet posts about the rest of your personal life before you out yourself :)

Not a chance of that!!
OP posts:
KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 15:09

@ValancyRedfern

Good luck kpss What should I Google to contribute to your fundraising?
Thank you!

I think googling this:

fighting-for-sex-based-rights-of-women-in-prison

will get you there!

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/07/2021 15:29

What this judgement means in terms of safeguarding children doesn't bear thinking about. If it can be so openly stated by the judiciary that the protection of women from sex offenders can be abandoned in favour of the demands of these criminals wanting access to their victims for validation purposes, then who is going to hold the line for children's safety.
We've already seen how the political activist groups pushing queer theory have been able to access schools with (until recently) no restrictions....

InvisibleDragon · 03/07/2021 15:31

Good luck with the interview tonight kpss!

ArabellaScott · 03/07/2021 16:07

Good luck tonight, KPSS, you're doing such important work.

GrownUpBeans · 03/07/2021 16:08

Thanks kpss. Good luck with the interview.

Datun · 03/07/2021 16:20

If it can be so openly stated by the judiciary that the protection of women from sex offenders can be abandoned in favour of the demands of these criminals wanting access to their victims for validation purposes, then who is going to hold the line for children's safety.

This.

I know I keep saying it, but it's insane.

Men aren't women! You can't change sex.

Leafstamp · 03/07/2021 17:34

@teawamutu

I'm not depressed like I normally am the day after a setback.

Partly because we literally couldn't buy the publicity this loss has given us. And partly because I'm more in a 'fuck this shit we riot at dawn' space.

Judicial reviews don't work for us because so much of this crap is legal. So let's fucking sue.

Can we crowdfund for the victim? Can we set up the GC Law Project and have a fighting fund for cases?

And if it's legal, the law must change. Writing to my MP today.

This is the same as me. Wrote to my MP this morning.
OffYouGoNow · 03/07/2021 17:40

Has anyone got a good template to use to write to MPs? I wouldn’t know what to write apart from - What the actual hell is happening...

BatmansBat · 03/07/2021 17:52

www.smobserved.com/story/2021/07/02/news/california-womens-prison-passes-out-condoms-to-inmate-population-as-arrival-of-transwomen-causes-explosion-of-risky-sex/5800.html

Prisons in California allegedly passing out condoms before the transwomen arrives. Nice.

Leafstamp · 03/07/2021 17:52

@OffYouGoNow

Has anyone got a good template to use to write to MPs? I wouldn’t know what to write apart from - What the actual hell is happening...
You might get some ideas from here:

sex-matters.org/posts/prisons/prison_jr/

I said (slightly paraphrased):

I am moved to write with the utmost concern regarding the unfolding situation for women's spaces. You will likely be aware of this week's case allowing transgender males to be housed in female prisons.

This case has pushed the question of single sex services back to government. Judges acknowledged the harm to women of allowing transgender males (trans women) into women's prisons, but declared it lawful.

The Government's new LGBT Champion (Lord Herbert) says its' a 'culture war' that government shouldn't pick a side on.

Please can I urge you to speak up on these matters. Taking a side on this issue is required as a moral imperative. This government cannot allow women's spaces to be infiltrated by males identifying as women. Spaces include not just prisons, but in sports, rape and domestic violence refuges, toilets etc.

ScreamingMeMe · 03/07/2021 18:02
"Risky sex" Angry