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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Prisons Judicial Review: Judgement

468 replies

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 02/07/2021 09:02

It's finally here...
The judgement in the prisons judicial review R (FDJ) v SSJ
will be handed down by email at 10.30 am today...

Here is a reminder of what it was about:

www.keep-prisons-single-sex.org.uk/judicial-review-campaign-update

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KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 09:27

@WeeSisters

Just to note, the woman who took the case was assaulted by a prisoner with a GRC. So some of the 90 sexual assaults by women are by trans prisoners.
Also correct.

Incidents in prison that involve a prisoner of the male sex who identifies as transgender and who has a GRC will record that prisoner's involvement as being that of a woman.

From 2021 data are being collected on GRC holders (previously this was always declared to be 'impossible' and 'not allowed' and according to Sarah Hannett barrister for SSJ potentially 'a criminal act'). How much that will trickle down through data collection & recording within the prison system is not yet known.

We are asking our supportive MPs and Peers to ask questions to ascertain this.

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Datun · 03/07/2021 09:27

So a prisoner who has been convicted of sexual or sexually motivated offences, for whom the OSP would in every other set of circumstances be used, suddenly mustn't have it used by virtue of the fact of possession of a piece of paper.

I know my frustration is felt by every other woman reading this.

But it's quite fucking unbelievable that this cohort, who by the judges own words, are more likely to be sex offenders, are risk assessed less than other males who present a lower risk! And it's a risk assessment that determines whether they have access to highly vulnerable, incarcerated women.

It's absolutely insane.

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 09:29

@Waitwhat23

This means that prisoners of the male sex who identify as transgender and who have a GRC do not have the OSP used in their risk assessment. They must not have this risk assessment tool used. Because they are women and this tool is not for use with women.

This has left me speechless.

@KeepPrisonsSingleSex thank you for continuing this fight. It's bizarre it's actually needed. I'll be doing some digging for your fund - I was impressed to see that its already over £3k (from yesterday?)

Thank you so much!

I have been blown away by the support - we will not let you down!

Obviously I can't link to the crowdfunder here, but I think I am allowed to C&P our Overview blurb:

When we first started almost 12 months ago, we consisted of a few boxes of stickers and a Twitter account run by 1 person as she recovered from covid. We have now grown. Some of our work you may be aware of.

In Parliament we have formed a growing and committed team of MPs and Peers across the political spectrum. KPSS has been responsible for 20 questions asked in both houses about the sex-based rights of women in prison. It was through one of these that we discovered that from 2021 the MoJ will report data on the number of GRC holders in prison.

In Scotland we are talking to MSPs about the specific issues that women in prison in Scotland face and are working to build on our existing alliances.

In Policy we have been consulted on the development of policy. It was through our work that we discovered that two policies relevant to women in prison are under review. This knowledge enabled all groups working for women’s sex-based rights to take action.

We have made over 10 consultation submissions to defend the rights of women in prison.

In the Media we have become a ‘go to’ for journalists who want a quote or to discuss the background to a story. Our letter calling for female prisoners to only be housed with prisoners of the same sex was published in the Telegraph. This was signed by former prison officers, barristers and academics including Professor Rob Wintemute, who co-authored the Yogyakarta Principles.

We have been invited to write for other organisations. We have been interviewed by various GC outlets. These have had over 12,000 views: important publicity for women in prison.

We have formed working relationships with other groups both in the GC and prisons sector to contribute our specialist knowledge.

Internationally we have expanded our work, most notably in the USA where we have a dedicated Campaign Director. Our work here has included: partnering with WHRC-USA on a nationwide FOIA initiative, submissions to State legislature, media and producing materials for in-person campaigning and protests.

From 1 woman we have grown to a team of volunteers, all of whom give their time and energy for free (as so many of us do!). But becoming a more professional organisation with a broader reach takes money. Your support through t-shirts and donations is hugely appreciated, but there is always a shortfall. To date we have been making up the difference out of our own pockets.

This crowdfunder will enable us to get to the next level and to increase our reach in terms of media platforms, content creation and distribution, advertisements, etc. There are many excellent groups doing excellent work. There are lots of requests for donations. We are no more worthy than any of these.

But we are the only group whose sole focus is the sex-based rights of women in prison. We will never deviate from this. We will never compromise. If we can’t get it right for women in prison, who can we get it right for?

Thank you so much for whatever help you can give us.

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GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 03/07/2021 09:30

In sum:
Here we are balancing the rights of one group of people for validation, and the rights of another group of people for physical safety.

Obviously, since the first group consists of biological males, their right to validate themselves outweighs the right of the other group - which consists entirely of those pesky women - to be safe.

Fucking hell. How did we get here?

highame · 03/07/2021 09:32

I am trying to formulate the letter to my MP but I just keep gathering more and more information and am actually losing the plot. Has anyone put together a bullet point list of issues that I might use before I drive myself to distraction?

FlyPassed · 03/07/2021 09:32

I've woken up furious. Is it time to revisit the Hansard debate and demand answers directly from the MPs and Lords who hand waved away concerns about women's rights? We can't let them get away with this, they need to be held personally accountable

mobile.twitter.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1049289194370002945

merrymouse · 03/07/2021 09:32

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

In sum: Here we are balancing the rights of one group of people for validation, and the rights of another group of people for physical safety.

Obviously, since the first group consists of biological males, their right to validate themselves outweighs the right of the other group - which consists entirely of those pesky women - to be safe.

Fucking hell. How did we get here?

But this is actually a step forward because it acknowledges that competing rights exist. This is not ‘TWAW’.
Clymene · 03/07/2021 09:35

Just FYI, women might want to have a quick look on the petitions and activism board. Faster than googling ,,, Smile

OvaHere · 03/07/2021 09:36

Thank you @KeepPrisonsSingleSex what you have achieved in a short space of time is amazing. I will keep donating as you get closer to your target. Flowers

Clymene · 03/07/2021 09:39

I'm really shocked about the OSP thing. That's just appalling. How did we get to a place where common sense has gone out of the window and been replaced with flimsy ideology?

highame · 03/07/2021 09:41

I second that ovehere in fact the write up brought back some positivity, which I desperately needed.

ScreamingMeMe · 03/07/2021 09:44

@HighNetGirth

Not as bad as some are making out. This is a loss but not a brush-off, if you see what I mean.

The judges refused to strike down the policy in its entirety but are leaving the door open (complete with a beckoning hand and a come-hither look) for challenges to individual cases where the policies are not followed to the letter and the risk assessment is not robust. Plus HMPPS is told to jolly well collect data on trans prisoners properly.

So, battle lost, outcome of war remains to be seen.

I agree. Great to see this hitting the media too. There's no way you can spin this really ( althoughI see someone has tried). More eyes will be opened.

Well done KeepPrisonsSingleSex

It's made me more hardline about the GRA actually. Now I think it needs re-working or replaced with something else. And anyone who's seen my previous posts about the GRA knows this is a turnaround for me.

DialSquare · 03/07/2021 09:50

@OvaHere

Thank you *@KeepPrisonsSingleSex* what you have achieved in a short space of time is amazing. I will keep donating as you get closer to your target. Flowers
I second this. Thanks for what you are doing. I've just donated and will continue to do so regularly.
KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 09:51

@Clymene

I'm really shocked about the OSP thing. That's just appalling. How did we get to a place where common sense has gone out of the window and been replaced with flimsy ideology?
I obtained the reports etc that went into the decision re OSP for transgender prisoners via FOIA. The only discussion relates to the fact that for transgender prisoners with no GRC (i.e. legal males who will have it used where their conviction indicates), the OSP has not been validated for transgender prisoners, so prison staff are urged to interpret results with caution.

NOTHING ABOUT THE IMPACT ON SAFETY OF WOMEN IN PRISON.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/07/2021 09:53

It's time that the trans organisations spoke up about this and made some proposals for action:

Either this alarming number of convicted sex offenders are trans - in which case there's a need for some urgent research and follow up action, given all the implications for woman and children who are forced to share 'single sex' spaces with them.

Or they're not trans - in which case they have no business sharing prisons etc with women. Hopefully now the conflict between the demands for validation versus the safety of women has been openly acknowledged by the courts, some pressure can be put on these well funded organisations - and the government - to address this dangerous situation.

highame · 03/07/2021 09:59

[quote FlyPassed]I've woken up furious. Is it time to revisit the Hansard debate and demand answers directly from the MPs and Lords who hand waved away concerns about women's rights? We can't let them get away with this, they need to be held personally accountable

mobile.twitter.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1049289194370002945[/quote]
That is an incredible thread flypast I have just read some of it with my jaw on my chest. We wonder how we got where we have and it's staggering how long this has been going on. Wow!

LizzieSiddal · 03/07/2021 10:04

I really hope the woman behind the JR does sue. I assume her legal team will be discussing her options with her now?

I think this is the way forward.Government departments will only change policy, when it looks like it will cost them millions, not to. At the moment there’s no incentive for the government to change any laws(because women don’t matter). Hit them in the pocket and they will begin to listen.

yourhairiswinterfire · 03/07/2021 10:11

Either this alarming number of convicted sex offenders are trans - in which case there's a need for some urgent research and follow up action, given all the implications for woman and children who are forced to share 'single sex' spaces with them.

Or they're not trans - in which case they have no business sharing prisons etc with women. Hopefully now the conflict between the demands for validation versus the safety of women has been openly acknowledged by the courts, some pressure can be put on these well funded organisations - and the government - to address this dangerous situation.

Yes. Safeguards need strengthening. Urgently. Liz Truss needs to stop talking about protecting our single sex spaces and make it happen. It's not irrational, or bigoted or phobic to want to exclude the male sex class from our spaces. It's crucial.

If a woman can't expect to be protected from rape and sexual assault whilst she's locked up in prison of all places, then where can she expect it?

toffeebutterpopcorn · 03/07/2021 10:13

I remember when there was a trend of inmates converting to Islam (in the belief of getting a cushier life). Apparently a tv show cause a trend of Jewish converts.

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 10:13

@LizzieSiddal

I really hope the woman behind the JR does sue. I assume her legal team will be discussing her options with her now?

I think this is the way forward.Government departments will only change policy, when it looks like it will cost them millions, not to. At the moment there’s no incentive for the government to change any laws(because women don’t matter). Hit them in the pocket and they will begin to listen.

I think part of the reason why we are where we are is because it has just simply been so much easier for the MoJ to agree to house at least some prisoners of the male sex in the female estate. The hassle and the aggro and the legal cases all came from that side.

We need things to shift. We need to create the climate where it is simply more trouble than it is worth to have the female estate run as a mixed-sex facility. We need it to be the simplest, easiest and least stressful option to just make women's prisons single sex once more.

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merrymouse · 03/07/2021 10:13

Or they're not trans - in which case they have no business sharing prisons etc with women.

Yes - this is a key point and the fact that the numbers were acknowledged is important.

highame · 03/07/2021 10:13

and hit them at the ballot box.

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 10:14

Re the Hansard Debates:

I am very pleased that amongst our supportive and committed Peers are those who spoke out against this at the time.

I am sure it gives them no pleasure whatsoever to have been proved right.

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toffeebutterpopcorn · 03/07/2021 10:23

There will be law cases. Too late of course. I also remember cases in the states where prisoners contracted AIDS in jail after being raped because those with it weren’t treated and those who were assaulted weren’t listened to or protected.

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 10:28

Remember E Wing? The 'trans' unit in the female estate at HMP Downview? Where TW with a GRC who had proved themselves to be too high risk to be managed in the general female population go as a temporary measure?

Remember that this had been mooted in early discussions as a place where high risk 'non-TW' could be housed? But this was (thank goddess) rejected?

Well it would appear that women HAVE BEEN housed in that unit at the same time as TW with a GRC, for the purposes of isolating during the covid pandemic.

Apparently they have been held on a separate landing to the TW.

This sets a dangerous precedent. The unit has now been 'proved' to work for both TW and 'non-TW'. Will this open it up to being used to house high risk women too?

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