Transgender weightlifting

[Husbandno3]

I like to think of myself as a feminist.
I’m there was in interesting feature on BBC radio 4s woman’s hour about transgender athletes and inclusion in the olympics.
The programme featured some new research and an interview with the researcher, that suggests that there are significant biochemical differences between trans women and women that may mean they have an unfair advantage.
Controversially the Olympic committee have recently permitted the inclusion of trans athletes in certain sports. The one that has made the newspapers is a trans female athlete from New Zealand that will be competing in the upcoming olympics.
My position is that I do not feel there is any reason to not be as inclusive as possible in any walks of life to trans women, however, in some competitive sports such as weightlifting, where it could convey an unfair advantage, it might not be appropriate. (These appeared to be similar thoughts to the radio 4 presenter by the way, based on the research that was published)
I wondered what others thoughts were on this.

I think you need to get over to the Feminism and Womens Rights part of mumsnet... this is a very hot topic and you will find it exhaustively discussed...

I wondered what others thoughts were on this.

This has been done to death. A quick search and you’ll know what others’ thoughts are.

I agree, this isn't an AIBU topic that will go well. It's better in other thread topics but has also been exhaustively discussed.
You can feel frustrated and annoyed about biological advantage , it's scary to discuss it as you will get called transphobic by some people for expressing a view.
Debate is being stifled and I hope that it can be respectfully done by all parties. In my experience AIBU topic doesn't lend itself to balanced discussions and tends to attract a higher proportion of combative posters.

The programme featured some new research and an interview with the researcher, that suggests that there are significant biochemical differences between trans women and women that may mean they have an unfair advantage

New research? Male and female biological differences have been around for a long time. Because that what is being compared here. Male v Female.

Maybe check out the relevant board and I'm sure you will find reference to this subject on almost any of the threads

As per pp there’s a whose section on this topic.

But I’d add that Yabu to say:
I do not feel there is any reason to not be as inclusive as possible in any walks of life to trans women

I firmly believe that trans women should be accepted/accommodated by their fellow men, within the male ‘gender’, and not by women as females. It will take a long time for this to happen, of course, as it did with homosexuality, but it will happen, eventually.

I'm a PT and my view is that this kind of stuff would kill competitiveness in a sport like weightlifting.

@Polkadots2021

I'm a PT and my view is that this kind of stuff would kill competitiveness in a sport like weightlifting.

And in any other women's sport.

Yeah I think you're right.

I don’t do sports, it doesn’t affect me directly, so whilst I’m aware of it I don’t really care that much. I think that’s how it goes for a lot of things in life, if it doesn’t affect you much, you don’t apply much thought to it.

I imagine athletes are quite concerned about it though, especially if they are women and compete in weight lifting.

Yes there’s been loads of discussion over in Feminism (or whatever it’s called these days). I think you’ll find plenty of thoughts on the subject especially if you’re new to it all. I haven’t delved too deeply but I think the consensus is that it’s a tad unfair.

If you don’t mind me asking are you husband number 3 or are you on your third marriage? Or is your MN name just random?!

Literally no-one thinks it’s fair - It’s cheating. Laurel Hubbard is a cheat. Fuck knows what the IOC are thinking.

The IOC wanted to ban Caster Semenya at some point didnt they? Because she had very high natural levels of testosterone for a woman (completely genetic & she is very much female!). That was disgusting the way they treated her.

To then do such an about face that biologically male athletes could compete as female is a strange about face after taking that kind of position. I know a lot of people who took or take gear (anabolic steroids - I work in a gym after all) and taking them many many years ago still provides you with an advantage years later (that's why many of us want lifetime bans of steroid users, not just 1-2 years or whatever temporary band sports feds often give for doping offences). So if a male had transitioned they'd still have a major advantage alongside differences in height, musculature, etc.

Sport isn't about anything but codified rules that make the foundational level of competition as equal as possible. Without that, it's just a fixed, unfair event and who wants to watch that?

Thanks to everyone that posted. I’m going to repost this on the feminism board

I don’t do sports, it doesn’t affect me directly, so whilst I’m aware of it I don’t really care that much. I think that’s how it goes for a lot of things in life, if it doesn’t affect you much, you don’t apply much thought to it

I suggest you read "First They Came" - a short poem.

Caster Semenya is very much not female. Semenya's Difference of Sex Development is one only males can have.

Cheats, the lot of them.

Polkadots caster semenya has XY chromosomes and fully functioning (but not descended) testicles. This is a matter of public record from the court of arbitration for sport ruling about what events caster can compete in, based on being a person with 46XY 5-ARD syndrome - a variation of male sexual development .

OP is basically saying 'we need to be inclusive and kind in all situations, but need to draw a line at sport, because that's unfair'

Really? Sport? Sport is the issue that makes you think: 'hang on. That's not fair'?

Not women's provisions or domestics abuse shelters or medical examinations... sport.

Tells me all I need to know.

I actually am a competitive weightlifter and its so demoralising. Whats the point in all the training?

@jetadore

As per pp there’s a whose section on this topic.

But I’d add that Yabu to say:
I do not feel there is any reason to not be as inclusive as possible in any walks of life to trans women

I firmly believe that trans women should be accepted/accommodated by their fellow men, within the male ‘gender’, and not by women as females. It will take a long time for this to happen, of course, as it did with homosexuality, but it will happen, eventually.

This won't happen as trans women don't want to be accepted by men - they want to be associated with women.

Op I think you may be just about to peak

Hubbard isn't 'female'. They identify with some nebulous idea of woman.

They went through male puberty with all the advantage that confers.

Hubbard is a mediocre male cheating against female athletes.

If this is allowed to catch on it will destroy women's sport.

It's not transphobic to state reality.

Hi, OP. We're moving your thread to the Sex & gender debate board now.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

I actually am a competitive weightlifter and its so demoralising. Whats the point in all the training?

The point is that we must not give in. Even if women have to organise their own competitions. You are still the weightlifter you were, before transpeople decided to take over.

Don't be demoralised. Be fucking angry. Unite with other angry women and leave those who want this to have it their way. In their space, not ours.

I was just coming on to say that Caster Semenya is male and I am amazed that anyone still thinks differently, but I see that others have pointed this out.
I guess that part of the reason there is still so much misinformation around is that Mumsnet only allows discussion of these matters in one area of the site, recently made even more separate from the rest, because so many people (men) are desperately trying to silence women and stop them trying to retain and protect their sex based rights.