Girl pushed under train.

[Thelnebriati]

The girls all have to run past the boys to board the train.
One girl is kicked in the face, spat on, shoved, tripped up, and ends up falling on to the tracks.

The guard in they hi vis yellow jacket just watches.

I'm at the end of my tether with male violence and entitlement.

twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1391436254315700224

@ChloeCrocodile

I think we've reached a stage where we need to priortise recruiting huge numbers of public transport police/security to patrol all trains and tubes to a much greater extent than they do.

In England there are moves to remove guards from trains entirely and have drivers only. There were a series of railway strikes about it pre-covid. For the safety of all vulnerable people this needs to be resisted in the strongest terms.

I can't blame the guard for not getting involved - it was one person against a huge group. However, if train guards are unable to intervene, they should be calling the gardi (or police in UK) every single time they have to chuck people off the trains for violence, intimidation or harassment. All of those things are against the law. We should not have to wait until a girl is seriously injured before the law intervenes.

The removal of guards was more about changing their role, they would still be on board the train but would not have responsibility for opening and locking the doors. The fuss a couple of years ago was because it means trains would be able to run without them if there was none available, which means the guard and their unions would no longer have the power to disrupt services if they didn't get their way in negotiations.

That said, driver-only trains have been common on some lines in England for decades.

In the OP's video I don't blame the guard for not getting involved, his job is to keep the train running safely, not handle a pack of violent scummy kids.

I think it's quite telling that although this has been picked up internationally, it doesn't appear anywhere on RTÉ's website. So the state broadcaster is failing to acknowledge this. How predicable.

We have a serious law and order problem in this country, and until people demand better from the Gardaí (more visible on the streets, more resources) the justice system (harsher sentencing) and the government it's not going to change.

I hope this get reported far and wide and our pathetic government are shamed into seeing what is really going on.

Omg. This is sickening. Do we know how the girl is ? Hope she is ok. Let’s hope they throw away the key with these entitled bullies but somehow I doubt it.

Violence breeds more violence and capital punishment functions as the ultimate sanction for violence

I don't agree with "putting them down", that might be going slightly too far.

However, I will point out that even using prison is a form of violence. You have to drag people into containment and hold them against their will. That's violence, plain and simple.

Stop using prison because it teaches people that violence is acceptable?

The idea that if you have the death penalty, you are teaching that it's OK to kill is absurd to me. Obviously, you are teaching only that it's OK to kill in very specific circumstances, and that generally it's very bad to kill.

If women were the world's criminals and yobs, men would reintroduce gulags and firing squads. (Only they wouldn't because they'd fear us and we'd be the ones in charge. I guess teenage boys like this have their uses as the basic-level enforcers of the patriarchy.)

@Wishing14

I do think part of the problem (though it cannot be proved) is the rise and normalisation of pornography, which is becoming more and more extreme and depicting violence and degradation to women. If you asked young women now what ‘normal’ sex is like (e.g. one night stands) I guarantee they will have different answers to even 10 or 20 years ago. Even on mainstream tv, itv and bbc dramas, the storyline so often seems to be violence and rape of women. I think we seriously underestimate hidden links between these things and how they change how we feel, think and behave. So much so they are slowly changing how both men and women experience pleasure/ pain. I can see it happening and it’s terrifying. There is a real issue here that runs deep into ALL society. I remember being 13 (I am 33 now) and being shown a video involving a woman and a horse by boys at school. God knows what girls are subjected to now and how it makes them feel about their place in the world. And boys too who I also feel scared for (as a mum of both a boy and girl). I don’t know what the answer is...

This social phenomenon in Ireland actually predates the easy access to pornography fwiw it’s really a local issue that has been ignored or minimised for far too long

It was daytime drinking and smoking in a park with babies and prams in tow. It was no place for babies.

There was a culture for a long time where people had babies for benefits.

I presume gangs of aggressive youths like this is a consequence of absent parents.

The question still remains where are the parents of these youths?

@Zinco

What I am saying is that we have tried violence to stop violence for centuries. Mostly male violence and replicating male patterns of violence. If this worked it would not exist or it would have been moderated.

When we moved away from using corporal punishment, it was never based on hard evidence of what does or doesn't work. It was basically a moral reform. It's "progressive" and "humanitarian" to stop doing it.

I guess I could say, the fact that we used those punishments for hundreds of years is evidence that they must have been useful.

But really of course, we need properly designed studies to work this out, and they wouldn't be allowed to happen.

So you believe violence against women is useful too, especially by husbands. Or any kind of violence obviously

Violence against children was normalised within the home. The same as violence against women. Because they had no rights. Basically violence of those with more power over others.

Every society has rules against violence. No society consents to children (or women) been randomly beaten by strangers. It is allowed by those with authority over them. Mostly men, but also women reproducing these patterns of power in the house.

There are plenty of studies showing the damage of violence on children. I don't know where you are trying to get.
Corporal punishment has always been illegal when those who were beaten did not belonged to the category women or children (or other marginalised from society such as prisoners).

You can always justify violence if you want to. Then, you can say the violence exercised by these guys also serves a purpose within their own community.

I am starting from the position that violence is not good. Not something that you like depending who is the one at the receiving end

Violence breeds more violence and capital punishment functions as the ultimate sanction for violence

Also would like to see evidence of this. Seems to me a nice little bromide oft repeated but never really backed up.

The idea that if you have the death penalty, you are teaching that it's OK to kill is absurd to me. Obviously, you are teaching only that it's OK to kill in very specific circumstances, and that generally it's very bad to kill
I think your argument is valid, but I think my argument is valid too. The problem of what to do with people who refuse to co-operate and follow society's rules, this problem is huge and thorny, there is no good solution.

It's many many years ago but I still remember my mum's anger and frustration. I am one of 7, brought up in poverty (60s and 70s) but with both parents working.

Her issue was that the kids causing problems were given holidays, taxis to school and general mollycoddling by do-gooders whereas we just had to get on with it and no holidays etc, and yet we behaved. As an adult now, I can appreciate that these kids were likely to be having issues at home etc. But at the time, I admit to also feeling hacked off that I was walking miles to school in the pissing rain while they sailed past in taxis and that we never had holidays and the treat trips that they got.

I also remember my mum commenting to a friend who had said to her that "she was so lucky since none of her DC were in jail etc" and my mum saying that luck had nothing to do with it.

So why do some children cause this sort of bother whereas others brought up in similar circumstances don't? Is it always parenting? I say this as the parent to two boys - well men now, neither of whom has ever been any trouble. DS1 was bullied as a kid who was from a middle class household though it was a mixed school. The parents were people we socialised with. Both DSs had friends from "the wrong side of the road" (exactly the same type of area that I grew up in) some in single parent families and they were the loveliest boys you could meet. It's definitely not just poverty or no male role model etc.

www.thesun.ie/news/6949715/train-attack-dublin-howth-dad-terror-daughter-cctv/
Father talks about the attack on his 17yo daughter. She's ok but pretty upset!

It might be relevant to point out that two separate young men have been charged in the cases of Julia James and Maria Rawlings. It's likely, if convicted, that these men will be released from prison still younger than the middle-aged women they killed.

Shocking incident- hope those responsible are caught and severely reprimanded

As a slight aside - it appears the attack took place on1 April but had only just made media attention

www.thesun.ie/news/6940294/gardai-woman-train-track-howth-dart-station-dublin/

Horrendous, and agree, although the girl being pushed onto the tracks is extreme and not common, the violence and intimidation shown is.

I work in a school, I have seen several incidents where a gang of boys (usually led by one or 2 serious troublemakers) intimidate a girl or a weaker boy. Its not necessarily a male against female problem but its definitely a male violence problem.

Who is bringing up these thugs? Parents who are poorly equipped to cope with challenging their difficult children (and lots of children are difficult), it often is people who (through a mixture of issues) end up as single mothers and/or with feckless partners/husbands who are thuggish themselves, the boys become like their dads.

Schools are powerless most of the time and the parents complain that their child "gets blamed for everything" meanwhile staff get called "fucking cunts" by these boys, who just get told to not do it again. Their parents get called in, who claim they are lovely at home, but as the boys get older, are often scared of them.

If they persist on this path, they will end up in jail, because they get off with it as teenagers but not as adults. Its insidious, and as someone who works with children that have the potential to end up like these thugs, very depressing.

Its a societal problem, footballers and other sportsmen are applauded but can often show serious aggression and these are the people these boys look up to. Too much aggression is tolerated on the pitch, shoving etc, our boys think its ok. If you do that in the street as an adult you'll be going to jail.

The Gardai seem to have little luck identifying the gang - but within 24 hours of it getting shared on Twitter several of them have named

Reminds me of some vair MC people we were friends with whose kid was jumped, mugged and had his phone taken (punch in the face for good measure).

Oh my god - is he ok?
Those poor boys, they come from the estates and have nothing (apart from a roof above their heads, food in the table - all the stuff they pinch), isn’t is a shame, they have no alternative....
No - your son - how is he?

Now poor DS got mugged by similar feral bike lads and it did shake his confidence for a long time. The polices take was - well it’s beating up other kids now, they will end up in jail (if they are lucky).

@Rejoiningperson

I thought it was Howth Junction and not Howth? Howth Junction is a deprived area. Howth is more affluent. I think, maybe someone more local to Dublin can correct me.

Howth Junction dart station is in Kilbarrack which is quite a deprived area.

One problem imv is that if the girl struck out and eg grabbed the boys foot pulling him off his bike she would be the one to be prosecuted, or if any other of the girls hit out at them ditto.
It's never taken into account that the boys are stronger so someone would be entitled to hit out in fear of what the boys fun might lead to. The weaker person is hamstrung by the law and unable to retaliate. 50 years ago you might have sent your big tough uncle and his pals to duff them up, this possible threat stopped much of this persecuting and sexist behaviour. Now the uncle would go to jail, the 'fun living' lads would laugh all the way to court.

It does happen in many towns and has done for some time. There’s a similar gang in the Guildford area that has been causing merry hell for a couple of years now.

“ If this is a law and order issue, then left/liberal political parties tend to be very soft on crime.”
Remind me who’s been in power since 2015...
The PCC in Surrey is Conservative and so was her predecessor. They have a policy of doing nothing about these kids. It’s the LibDems that are trying to get them dealt with.

Teenage gangs have been a problem for decades. In the 1950s, New York had a terrible teen gang problem that I understand has never gone away. One of them, Nicky Cruz, became an evangelist and set up an outreach to try and do something to help. Prior to that, he was leader of one of those gangs and they really did go in for serious crime, violence and murder. He was 15 or 16 when he joined.

Lower the age of criminal responsibility. These are not children . If they are capable of doing that and then making the decision to just run away they are culpable .

@Unsure33

Lower the age of criminal responsibility. These are not children . If they are capable of doing that and then making the decision to just run away they are culpable .

Isn't the age of criminal responsibility 12 in Ireland?

If this is a common occurrence then why haven't they got someone patrolling the train station to prevent this happening in the future

Those poor girls running as fast as they can, individually, trying to swerve to avoid those boys in what must be a common occurrence.

Vicious boys it's so shocking.

So you believe violence against women is useful too, especially by husbands. Or any kind of violence obviously

I said nothing like that. That's a ridiculous misrepresentation!

In the adult world, punishment is only carried out by the state, so never by a husband.

You think violence is wrong. OK, as I say, even using prison as a punishment is a form of violence.

So I don't think that violence is always wrong. It can be defended in warfare, personal self defence, and yes, for punishment.

Personally I think your kind of position is actually dangerous and likely does a lot of harm. Your ideology will likely fail to protect the innocent, while posturing as being more "enlightened".

Yes, the woke tend to sneer at working class people who want politicians to get tough on crime. They don't seem to consider that a lifetime of being disproportionately affected by crime, and living in areas blighted by criminals, might give you some valid insight into the issue.

I agree with poster who said that when you are poor it's the badly behaved families and individuals who get the special treatment. There was also a sexist aspect to this too: girls were expected to behave well at school, boys were rewarded for not behaving badly.