GRA Reform, Legal Self Declaration, has no effect on access to spaces

[ool0n]

I'm wondering given the recent convincing defeat of gender critical ideology in the high court vs EHRC - if the Mumsnet gender critical people finally accept the fact that having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces?

People on the other side of the debate like myself have been explaining to GC people on Twitter for years that having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces so their objection to GRA reform is/was unfounded. I/we based this on -

1. English government legal analysis that stated having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces
2. Scottish government legal analysis ... ditto ...
3. The EA 2010 and GA 2004 text
4. The practical impossibility that a BC (Not an ID document) could be of any use in deciding access

now we have

1. Gender critical crowdfunded challenge to EHRC guidance that says having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces. Comprehensively lost, not even passed the very low bar to even be considered for a Judicial Review.

Given this is the case will gender critical people be reevaluating their assertion "Self ID", as in GRA Reform, must be opposed as it effects access to spaces? Trans people have always been able to "Self ID", in the colloquial sense, into men's and women's spaces. So making it easier for trans people to change their birth certificates only helps them, has no effect on GC feminists, and/or cisgender women and spaces.

(I also wonder if there'll be any introspection as to why an obviously incorrect interpretation of the law was able to become so prevalent in gender critical circles. Maybe listen to groups outside of GC circles a bit more?)

Where are thestatisticsin Canada where self ID there has caused problems for women?

Don't you see how ridiculous this statement is when anyone can be called a woman?

Canada must be a hell hole for women by now
If you think there are no problems in Canada or Ireland you haven't been paying attention.

You're a wee spooky ghost now BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

Shes fading like marty in back to the future 😱

Mother of god ool can you answer the question so we can get her back

I'd have given him some kudos if he'd at least said, "Not now, Bernard."

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

It’s honestly not a difficult question

You aren’t answering it by saying they don’t exist.....

Lets agree they don’t exist, but now women are saying can we please have single sex toilets

Can you see why some women would need single sex toilets...to be invented (in your weird other dimension thing you’ve got going)

They don't exist, unless you disagree that spaces that let in trans people are "mixed sex"? I'd say colloquially sex = gender, so that isn't true. But by my definition single gender spaces exist and women are happy to use them, prefer them, and they have trans women in them right now.

How can you assert women prefer spaces that have never existed in the UK by law?

@lonel

Canada must be a hell hole for women by now If you think there are no problems in Canada or Ireland you haven't been paying attention.

Of course there are, show me the statistics showing an increase in

• voyerism
• sexual assault and rape

In women's spaces since self ID came into being, apparently this will happen, so why isn't there any data showing it has happened?

Some women would want these MYTHICAL SINGLE-SEX SPACES. I am one of them. Now, why might that be?

@R0wantrees

Hmmm. I wonder why some women might prefer single sex toilets?

I think its more interesting to consider the reasons why some men might be invested in undermining female single sex spaces and Safeguarding.

This.

No problems with self ID in Ireland?

Women in Ireland are organising and speaking out.
Self id is a problem in Ireland for children and women.

The Countess Didn't Fight for This:

AIMS & OBJECTIVES
Women and children deserve privacy, dignity and safety, in schools, workplaces, sport, changing rooms, toilets, hospitals, prisons and refuges. Self-ID means an end to single-sex provision.

We provide data-driven and evidenced-based resources to concerned citizens to help them take action on these issues. We offer a safe, moderated public sphere across our platforms for people of all ages and backgrounds to question the Gender Recognition Act (GRA) and gender ideology (the belief you can change your sex) and how these impact everyday life. (continues)

We want to live in an Ireland where women and children are not second-class citizens. For 80 out of our 100 years as a state, we incarcerated, tortured and abused unmarried mothers and their babies. The last laundry closed in 1998 and a moment later in 2015, we gave men the right to ‘become’ women before we had granted women their reproductive rights.

Now policymakers are erasing the word ‘woman’ and ‘mother’ from public health literature and legislation. They are eroding single-sex provision and child safeguarding. This is not progressive – this is another turn of the same wheel.

We will be at the table when these decisions are being made in the future.

We will advocate for and centre women and children.

We will defend them against the march of ‘inclusivity’ which is catastrophic for child safeguarding and women’s hard-won rights."
thecountess.ie/aims-objectives/

Are you heard of reading?! You weren't asked if they exist!

@Huggybear16

Where are thestatisticsin Canada where self ID there has caused problems for women?

Don't you see how ridiculous this statement is when anyone can be called a woman?

There'd still be data on increased assault against women, even if it was committed by other women. Although the idea there is any large number of occurrences of crimes by trans women in women's spaces that the right wing haven't picked up on and amplified is ridiculous.

So hang on, you can only prefer things you have experienced?

Oh god @ool0n what do you do in restaurants when presented with two desserts you’ve never tried? 😱

Let’s all use our imaginations and try to think why some women might prefer single sex toilets

You have lots of opinions to share @ool0n, what do you think?

They don't exist, unless you disagree that spaces that let in trans people are "mixed sex"? I'd say colloquially sex = gender, so that isn't true. But by my definition single gender spaces exist and women are happy to use them, prefer them, and they have trans women in them right now

How can you assert women prefer spaces that have never existed in the UK by law

I literally agreed with you ...i said lets agree they don’t exist

So (fuck me how can i make this simpler)

Ok

I...rufus...believe in front of god and all his angels that single sex spaces do not exist

FACT or period or whatever the youth thing is to say

Now...can you answer the question ‘ can you see why some women need a single space even though they dont exist and never have’

A no would be fine at this point

A no would enable me to read my book

@SelfPortraitWithEels

I'd have given him some kudos if he'd at least said, "Not now, Bernard."

[quote stonecat]@ool0n

I don't want to go down the road in the first place to find out.

When it comes to safeguarding, we don't trial things first and see what happens. We prevent the bad shit from ever happening as best we can.

Those countries want to run the experiment? That's their choice. I'm sure there are no shortage of women living there who are pushing against it. [/quote]
It doesn't make you wonder at all why there are no stats showing decreased outcomes for women in Argentina, which passed its self ID law over 10 years ago? In Ireland over 5 years ago?

Maybe, just maybe, self ID isn't the disaster the gender critical movement claim it will be?

Or an I don’t know

That would be ok as well

Tell you what....

Let's AGREE with Oolon that there is no such thing as a single sex space because by letting in trans it becomes a mixed sex space.

Because Oolon has admitted by that statement that transwomen are NOT women.

Which according to his own logic makes him transphobic.....

A no would be fine at this point

There'd still be data on increased assault against women

I believe these issues have been raised re prisons and age beginning to increase. Increasing sexual threatening behaviour towards women from tw placed in the female prisons.

That's irrelevant as safeguarding is about recognising a potential issue, not shutting the door after the horse has bolted.

@BlueLipstickRocks

Tell you what....

Let's AGREE with Oolon that there is no such thing as a single sex space because by letting in trans it becomes a mixed sex space.

Because Oolon has admitted by that statement that transwomen are NOT women.

Which according to his own logic makes him transphobic.....

Oh shit

Good logicing there

Maybe, just maybe, self ID isn't the disaster the gender critical movement claim it will be?

It already is a disaster. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.