Superstraight

[Xanthangum]

Superstraight is trending on twitter. No I hadn't either.

Its a subcategory of straight that means that straight people can now be included in the lgbtqi+ categories. Or something. Hooray! Fight for my superstraight rights too Stonewall!. Or something

twitter.com/supa_str8/status/1368003836863000576?s=20

But framing any discussion of this as akin to sexual coercion seems reactionary to me.

Not discussion. Though, any hint of being against someone for defining their own sexual boundaries..or telling people they are wrong for..well being gay or straight, or bi, in the first place.. absolutely is coercion to me.

headisfucked

More power to your stepdaughter and her lesbian and bi friends. I just hope the school let them meet in peace

After the blunder of declaring that women's sexual preferences need to pass certain criteria before they can be said to be valid, the replacement tactic is "you do realise that the people behind #superstraight are alt-right don't you?"

This is very entertaining.

Yay to the girls headisfucked

#superlesbians. #superbi

Now they have voices

jj Well they'd basically be right, wouldn't they?

"Criticising" someone's sexual preferences is tantamount to telling them their sexual preferences should be something different. Given that sexuality is a deeply personal and intimate thing, I don't think there is any justification for that.

There's justification for criticising someone acting on a sexual preference if that action actually harms a third party - which is likely to be illegal in any event (e.g. paedophilia or rape).

But insofar as we are talking about consenting adults, I think taking it upon yourself to criticise someone's preferred characteristics in a sexual partner is a pretty short step from placing a deeply unpleasant social pressure on that person to 'consent' to sex, or at least the idea of sex, they do not want lest they be branded some sort of bigot.

Given that most people would agree that coerced consent isn't consent, I think you'll have an uphill battle convincing the majority that actually criticising someone's sexuality isn't quite a creepy and worrying thing to do.

Incidentally, there are plenty of people in the world who specifically don't fancy the middle-aged, or women, or - I imagine - white people. While it is of course OUTRAGEOUS that anybody would dare write me off because of these (protected) characteristics rather than basing their decision on my witty, winning and utterly charming personality, I manage to struggle on without stating or implying that there is something fundamentally suspect about them as a person because they have enough self-knowledge to be able to tell me in advance what does and doesn't get their motor running.

Well, because sex involves our physical bodies there is an element of attraction that is to do with just this. Hence the term 'physical attraction'.

Yes, attraction is more also complex more complex than this. We are also attracted to more cerebral features, intelligent and personality.

What this means, is that whilst you may appreciate attractive qualities in some people and like socialising with them, you wouldn't necessarily want them as a sexual partner.

Luckily I never had anyone trying to insist that I would sleep with them and that my complete lack of inclination to sleep with them was due to indoctrination into the patriarchy.

But then again, I was always attracted to very intelligent men (regardless of looks) and they would have known better than to try to pull that crap with me.

This is just bizarre.

Keep to the supertopic! :)

@jj1968

Look in the transwidows threads to see what often happens to a woman's view of the attractiveness of her male partner when he starts dressing as a woman, and particularly takes women's underwear into the bedroom

That's part of how gender manifests though surely? Why would a man who presents in a feminine way somehow suddenly become less attractive? There's nothing inherent to nature that says a man dressed in lingerie should be off putting, it's cultural, we learned it and I suspect it a large part of where transphobia comes from - much the same people a lot of people once felt repulsion when they saw same sex people being affectionate (and some still do).

OK fair point. If my husband put my underwear on, I wouldn't find him any less attractive (though I may giggle) but that's if it was just the underwear. If he did so while claiming to be a woman, however, that would turn me off on a psychological level because he really isn't a woman and I'd find him putting on women's clothes to reinforce that rather offensive.

Women's sexual attraction has many levels. All (nonharmful) variations are valid. No one can tell another person what they should find attractive.

@ThePankhurstConnection

I work with teens and I can confirm (but only anecdotally) that there is a significant number who are tired of this and not impressed by not being able to say so. A few have confided in me about this. If people do constantly talk over others and correct them frequently people will rebel. Especially teenagers.

2 of my stepkids think its bonkers. We had a phonecal from a teacher once about DSD. She is working out her own sexuality, but says shes almost 100% sure she is lesbian. Long story short, she was reported for being bigoted for saying lesbians do not fancy male people, and she was meant to be doing a detention for it (which we refused..of course). Teacher rang, and actually said to me 'X has been coming out with some concerning thingds at school and we would like to know where they have came from'. I was worried, tbh. But when they said what the problem was, I said its not a problem to us at all, and that infact, it sounds like whoever is saying she is wrong for being lesbian, is the homophobic one, rather than her being bigoted. Was the last I heard from the school mind. Her older brother has never held much respect for the 'biological sex is not real' school of thought, though one of his closest friends is trans. I was acually unaware of stepdaughters views on the topic until the call from a teacher. She pretty much keeps herself to herself generally speaking, so that was a nice surprise. Calling parents to complain that teens are..believing biology, and defending gay peoples right to be same sex attracted though, its nuts!

DSS I have spoken to indepth before, just to gauge if he knows quite how far this had all gone. He understands 100%. Apparently a lot of his friends do. And most of his understanding came from the trans member of his friendship group. Who from what he has said is what would be known as a 'old school transsexual', not a transtrender. I do think this makes a LOT of difference, both in outlook, and in behaviour. Of course that wont go for ALL of those groups, but...sems to tally generally speaking at least.

In short, again anecdotally, I am told that the vast majority of current teens think much of this 'transgender' stuff is attention seeking bollocks. But they seem to largely, as we do, make the distinction between those suffering body dysphoria, and the 'I wear a skirt therefor I am a woman and you must bow down' type though. The disctinction between activist types, and 'normal transpeople'.

Every time I return to www.reddit.com/r/SuperStraight/ there's something that makes me LOL:

TIL superstraight love was accepted and even celebrated in many ancient cultures around the world.

www.reddit.com/r/SuperStraight/comments/lzonim/til_superstraight_love_was_accepted_and_even/

TIL = today I learned

@RozWatching

So feminine men oppress women?

Wearing lingerie doesn't necessarily make a man feminine What a strange thing to say.

JJ, do you think that men who enjoy wearing, say, maid or nurse outfits are feminine?

To the extent that they are wearing stereotypically feminine clothes yes (presuming you were referring to an old fashioned female nurse's outfit). I thought all gender was is stereotypes?

headisfucked best of luck to your daughter.

Make sure that they emphasise that trans girls are girls and that they like them as sisters.

However, their sexuality is superlesbians and that they feel unsafe if their sexuality not is validated. They were born that way, they never had a choice and they shouldn’t be shamed for who they love.

Uh-uh. Switcharooney going on here.

This is backlash to people being told their lack of sexual attraction is invalid. So if you take this phenomenon to say young men are being told it's okay to be interested in whatever nonconsensual activity, that's two different leaps at once.

Anyway, I support the superstraight, supergay, superbi and most of all the superlesbians. The oppression of the superlesbians has been heartbreaking, and I have been staggered each and every time people have said that it was okay to be superlesbian but they should keep it private. Homophobia is not okay and nor is superhomophobia.

@Biscuitsanddoombar

headisfucked

More power to your stepdaughter and her lesbian and bi friends. I just hope the school let them meet in peace

I have my doubts. Though, framing it the same way those who claim being gay is bigoted use..might get them off to the right start, instead of starting on the backfoot I guess.

It was more students that pressured for them to disperse tbf. Though it sounds like staff had issues with it too, some of them anyway.

I foresee a fight ahead of them, but they seem to be getting..quite mititant in a way, with age. DSD is adamant noone will tell her there is anything wrong with her for not liking men/boys though. And I am expected to 'get that out of her'?! Fuck that, I am proud of her. And will stand behind her, aslng as she conitnues to fight for her own rights. I will of course, think twice if she does actually start being hateful about anyone, but I really cannot see it.

@nauticant

After the blunder of declaring that women's sexual preferences need to pass certain criteria before they can be said to be valid, the replacement tactic is "you do realise that the people behind #superstraight are alt-right don't you?"

This is very entertaining.

I just thought it was interesting given the 4chan connection as well (where the pepe meme originated).

And if you think I'm embarrassed or feel I blundered for questioning how sexual desires can be socially produced then you're quite wrong. It's a view that's been central to feminism for around 50 years.

@Fucket

Tbh I’ve not much probed him on why only men dressed up in women’s clothes and not men dressed as men. I shall have to get back to you.

It's probably a bit like (the reverse of) my BIL, who is gay (most probably Supergay) and isn't attracted to camp men, or feminine men. It's just his type. Many (not all) people have a type.

@nauticant

After the blunder of declaring that women's sexual preferences need to pass certain criteria before they can be said to be valid, the replacement tactic is "you do realise that the people behind #superstraight are alt-right don't you?"

This is very entertaining.

Its enlightening that's for sure. Maybe not in the way it was intended, but educational all the same.

Some very predictable responses both here and on Twitter - why does it always seem to be GCs fault? Or any voices deviating from TWAW must be nazis? Of course the alt-right has to be mentioned too. Jeez, within this thread I've seen someone referring to teenage boys talking about this as having a nazi fetish no acceptance that this may stem from frustration at being called transphobic simply for stating their sexual preference.

How difficult is it for some to understand that everyone has the right to describe and define their sexual orientation if they want to? Finding only the opposite sex, or only the same sex attractive is perfectly valid and no one has a right to tell someone they are wrong for defining themselves as such. When questioned, the TRA response seems to be 'of course it's fine to not find transwomen/men attractive'. Just so long as you don't say it out loud, or God forbid try and include it on your online dating profile. We've seen what happens when lesbians try that and it's not pleasant.

@SomethingWitchySomething

But insofar as we are talking about consenting adults, I think taking it upon yourself to criticise someone's preferred characteristics in a sexual partner is a pretty short step from placing a deeply unpleasant social pressure on that person to 'consent' to sex, or at least the idea of sex, they do not want lest they be branded some sort of bigot.

Do you not think there's a difference between discussing how sexual preferences might be socially constructed and criticising an individual for their sexual tastes? Isn't the first what a lot of people are doing when they raise concerns about the impact of porn on young people's sexualities for example?

Put simply, for years the position has been that it's wrong for women to have sexual orientations that men don't approve of. This position became unfashionable for a while but then returned with the "genital fetishists" narrative from trans rights activists.

But this week, trans activists were tricked into forcing this message onto men. Which is why #superstraight has gone viral and why there's a flamewar going on on social media. It is glorious.

headisfucked, really make your daughter read up on this, and her friends.

She just needs to insist on how all sexual orientations are valid, lesbians are valid, as are superlesbians, her body her choice, etc.

She could possibly even print out some online abuse against superlesbians for not being lesbians and say how unsafe she is feeling due to it.

They are the oppressed group, all love is valid and people should not be bigots.

[quote Fucket]@yetanotherusernameAgain and others who have asked about DH. He tells me he first realised when he saw Boy George as a teenager, but also page 3 girls. Never has he ever felt attracted to men presenting as straight. Then as DH ended up in the merchant navy, well things are a bit liberal sometimes after the booze is flowing. Especially with men from other cultures who aren’t so judgemental. Once that door was opened and realising a lot of blind eyes get turned and sometimes antics in ports are openly discussed, you realise it’s certainly not anything new and has been going on since men have been going to sea in ships!

But he’s been ashore quite sometime now, nearly 35 years and although he has dated trans women, probably weren’t called that back in the 1990s. It was never open to his family, colleagues etc about it. It wasn’t as acceptable as it is now.

I don’t even know if trans women is the right term, but anyway men dressed as women, he has also since been married to two women and has 4 kids.

I’ve never really been one to judge, having been at sea I know there are many men who will say they are absolutely straight and married with kids and that having ‘flings’ with men/ladyboys/trans women. sorry I’m not sure what the right terms here are, they would not view this as anything other than being straight because to be crude about it, they were the ‘men’. But as DH never had a problem with who put what where, he couldn’t really put himself in that category.

He didn’t stay at sea for very long though, and he’s dabbled when in between marriages. It never bothered me, and still doesn’t.

I’ve asked him if he’d go back to dating trans women again, and he has bluntly said, possibly but he doesn’t think his prostate could stand it. it’s all a bit delicate in that dept.[/quote]
This must be the longest most complicated way of saying "bisexual" I've ever read.

jj Yes, I think there is absolutely a difference between academic enquiry into the drivers of sexual preference on a population level with a view to forming a clearer intellectual understanding of it, and "criticising" someone's sexuality, which is what you were objecting to teenage boys being told they need not put up with.