Mumsnet says Trans Rights are Human Rights!

[ool0n]

I always assumed Mumsnet were not the biggest supporters of trans rights, given the stories about them. But this is a good statement on Twitter, "of course trans people exist, and of course trans rights are human rights"
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367071394870276099

Also I thought using terms like cisgender or cis were against the rules, this isn't true either -
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367080005193318401

So can I get a trans rights are human rights, trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary people are valid!

What do shadows under the fridge have to do with gender? Now I am really confused.

@TheHeathenOfSuburbia

You'd be hard pushed to find anyone on here who disagrees that trans people should have all the same human rights as any other member of their sex, plus additional protection from discrimination based on their transgender status.

The key word being “sex”.

I'm still struggling with WHAT transmen and transwomen are actually identifying with - unless it's a 1950s stereotype. The reason I object to "cis" (a term still being using here despite the frequent objections that it is offensive,) is that I am not and never was a 1950s stereotype.

Most adults got on with living their lives without feeling the need to define themselves in that way.

I get the OP identifying as male because they believe their views are more important than mere women who must be submissive, not disagree with them and not expect their questions answered.

@PheasantPlucker1

BigotryisBad

At no point die I mention transpeoples right to exist

I said believing transwomen are women is a belief.

Why are you so desperate to find transphobia you are making arguably transphobic quotes and claiming others said them?

Trans people exist; they are still part of "people".

Trans women exist; they are part of "women".

In what way can you make a statement that "believing transwomen are women is a belief" without inferring that it is possible to not believe trans women exist.

In either case, it's transphobic as it relies on the presumption that trans people are not who they say they are which is rooted in both misogyny and homophobia.

You denying that you're transphobic or stating that you are unaware of the implications you are making doesn't prevent them existing.

@CoffeeTeaChocolate

What do shadows under the fridge have to do with gender? Now I am really confused.

Nothing. It just highlights an inability to answer the question that was asked!

I htink we were supposed to be so amused we wouldn't notice!

If anyone ever calls me 'cis' anything, then I will tell them to take their 'cis' and shove it where the sun don't shine. Sideways.

I was challenged not to use the word woman, so I didn't!

Um, you were asked the question 'what is a woman'?

Obviously you can't use the word 'woman' in that answer! And obviously you can't say 'someone who identifies as one (meaning' a woman' either)?

That's fairly obvious isn't it?

Them mini malt loaves are disappointingly small.

Trans women are women. Cisgender is an identity and not a slur. Terfs are abhorrent. Trans people are at more risk than women in toilet situations

How does this work? Trans people get to identify as they identify, and other people have to accept the identity (i.e. "cis") assigned to them, and well, at least you didn't try to claim that "terf" is not a slur...

No, we are not buying this ideology.

I was challenged not to use the word woman, so I didn't!

And your definition lacked well.... definition.

The trainer said it was a totally valid, from -the- Latin term, so I am now confused about it

But there are other words that have been previously used in the English language, that originated from other languages which are absolutely not tolerated and are not used because they offend cultural and ethnic groups.

So that's a pretty weak argument. Just because it's Latin doesn't make it right.

I'm not cis-anything thanks. I'm just a plain old woman. No cis required.

TransRightsRCool

Careful, your hate is showing.

An interesting response from some that used "cis" in their response after being informed that many find it offensive.

Why does your definition of hate only run one way?

If in some weird transhumanist prank I woke up tomorrow and was in a body that is typically considered "a woman's" I wouldn't identify as a woman. I'm a man, and that identity is separate from my body's characteristics.

But doesn’t that prove that actually people can’t change sex? And how does that prove some sort of mystical, gender identity?

You seem to be mistaking cause and effect.

People who have been very overweight often still see themselves as a fat person, even after gastric bypass surgery. It doesn’t prove we are born with an innate fat/thin identity. It’s just a product of life experience.... which just proves what GC feminists say - gender identity is a social construct.

@SeaShoreGalore

Them mini malt loaves are disappointingly small.

But entirely delicious. Have you tried the strawberry ones?

It does make me laugh when people wade into these threads with 'you bunch of bigots, TRANSWOMEN ARE WOMEN' and then can't even answer the question 'what is a woman'? Like, it's such a basic question!

That's also getting very circular @bigotryisbad

Trans people exist; they are still part of "people". Yep, to both

Trans women exist; they are part of "women". Yes to the forst, no to the second. Unless you can explain how, why with non circular pints

In what way can you make a statement that "believing transwomen are women is a belief" without inferring that it is possible to not believe trans women exist. They exist as people. Just not as the sex they identify as! We can accept their belief without believing in it oursel;ves, just as we do religions!

n either case, it's transphobic as it relies on the presumption that trans people are not who they say they are which is rooted in both misogyny and homophobia. That's a stretch! They are preciselyt WHO they say they are, but not WHAT SEX they say they are!

You denying that you're transphobic or stating that you are unaware of the implications you are making doesn't prevent them existing. Well yes! As so many posters here have said. Why is it only true when you type it?

We all know how stonewall and friends define woman, though it would be nice to hear them spell it out in all its absurdity.
"A woman is any person who says the words 'I am a woman' and appears sincere."
Exception may be made for people who may make gender arguments look bad like anyone who commits an offence while in women's spaces.

I'd love to know what a "woman" "gender identity" is without referring to sexist stereotypes.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I was challenged not to use the word woman, so I didn't! Yeah! But you could have taken it seriously and actually privided a non circular definition!

It doesn't matter what definition I provide, you won't be satisfied. So I'll stick with this one: a woman is an adult human who identifies as a woman.

Born female? You grow into a woman.
Trans woman? Oh look you're a woman.
Nonbinary people sometimes interact with the identity of woman too but I think we'll leave it there for now. But this definition is sort of a catch-all. It's probably not fool-proof though. I'm not exactly infallible.

I can think of loads of things that make me a woman, most are either biological, or related to being raised as a girl and a young woman, or being a woman in general, and what goes with that.

I don't understand how you can feel like a woman, when you've never lived as one, and although anyone can empathise, imagine, or pretend, it doesn't mean they've "actually" experienced it.

I mean.... I'm a woman so I guess it's my word too? And I'm very happy to apply it to trans woman.

If it were your word you would be able to decide you didn’t want it. However, that isn’t how biology or society works.

Women can fight for legislation to protect and enable rights. A few can change their appearance to be perceived as male. None can avoid the consequences of sex.

I think the nature of this site means that it is full of people who have learned through experience what can and can’t be controlled.

You can campaign against harmful gender stereotypes. You can campaign for changes in the law. Some physical realities just need to be lived with - and that also requires legislation. You can’t legislate or make policy without clear language. People focus on toilets, but the key thing women are losing is language.