UK GENERAL ELECTION 2019

[Zenith123]

I really have to impress on everyone just how important it is to get out and vote Labour. The Tories have done nothing for anyone other than their rich buddies, and our present PM is a sexist bigot. Please vote Labour to save the NHS. Please.

OK, now I have to apologise for swearing at you mustard, there’s no excuse for that. But I am voting Tory because apart from my belief that erasing women is the end of any kind of equality, I think labour would be a disaster for the economy, as would a hung parliament, and that will in turn be a disaster for women. I am no less a feminist because I have different ideas about the way to solve the problems. But again, I do apologise.

I just said why i’m voting tory mustard. My mp. A tory. Is GC. And we need people in power on side. Else it’s pissing in the wind.

I will not be voting Labour under any circumstances. Self ID is the biggest reason - and frankly anyone arguing with women that they should prioritise other British interests over their own abolition and political disenfranchisement has lost their minds - but the whole Momentum Marxist lunacy and Jeremy Corbyn play a large part too.

I won't touch the LibDems who loathe women even more, and the Greens are insane and their safeguarding is abhorrent. My Cons candidate is a parascended in PITA who is a waste of space.

So I have no idea what to do. It's between voting purely to keep Labour out, or spoiling my ballot. I have never been more disenchanted or disgusted by the entire political caste of the UK.

@lady69 sorry I cross posted with you.

@StandUpStraight it’s fine, I get it’s an emotive subject and it’s really bloody stressful with the election 2 days away.

When is the GRA reform coming in? Because my biggest issue with voting this way is to prevent something that may not happen for a few years, and subjecting women and girls to 5 more years of preventable hideousness. This is what I can’t get my head around.

In terms of prisons, hospital wards, refuges and changing rooms, women and girls are dealing with GRA related hideousness right now, including assault and rape. It's happening now. It will make it impossible to guard women and girls' rights on anything.

When is the GRA reform coming in?

The sequence is usually this:

If it is in the manifesto of the party forming the government, it will be introduced in the Queen's Speech.

The HoC then votes whether to accept or reject the Queen's Speech. If the Speech is approved, time is allocated to presenting the bill.

If it's not in the manifesto at all, it won't be in the Queen's Speech.

Self ID is in both the Labour and LibDem manifestos. It is not in the Conservative manifesto.

If Labour forms the next government, the timetabling will be up to whoever they appoint as Leader of the House.

Given the urgency with which the LibDems are signalling I'd expect it to be on the agenda as soon as they can get it there, which could be very soon indeed.

(If they were elected. They won't be, but could end up as part of a coalition in the event of a hung parliament)

(If they were elected. They won't be, but could end up as part of a coalition in the event of a hung parliament

Agree. And could make it a condition of any coalition agreement.

We just don't know.

I'm not taking the chance.

If Labour wins I will immediately shift my focus to supporting those within the party who are pushing to get rid of self ID and enforce the exemptions in the Equalities Act. If they end up in a coalition with the LibDems I'm not sure that would do any good.

Someone posted this upthread Then, when this divided and fractured society has retreated from the brink of disaster, then, you can fight for your ideologies

It's Labour's adherence to a frankly batshit unscientific ideology espoused by a tiny minority of believers that is losing it votes.

At this point I get the distinct impression that they could be told 'you'll win a majority guaranteed if you change policy on these ideological points' and they wouldn't do it. It is Labour's ridiculous ideological position that will lose them the election, on this and other issues.

It really does read as though people are willingly turning a blind eye to the hundreds of other issues women face, to their detriment to stop this bill coming in.

Do all parties apart from Tories say that with self-id men will 100% be able to say ‘I’m a woman’ and instantly be allowed into female only spaces? Literally that easily?

Granted I haven’t done enough reading on this subject yet, so I’m still without all the facts.

Is that you Diane?

How is that a response to anything? Seriously, I’m asking questions because I want to understand. I’m not being a prick to anyone and yet I’m just getting shite posted at me. Not even funny shite at that!

Yes, self ID means exactly what it says on the tin. Labour put something about enforcing exemptions in the Equalities Act in the manifesto, but there's really no way to do that and have self ID at the same time, so nobody really knows how that will play out for sure. Dawn Butler, who's close to Corbyn and would likely have a significant role in a Labour administration, immediately announced that Labour would not in fact be doing what the manifesto promised in regards to the Equalities Act, so many seem to lean towards the belief that self ID with no checks is what's going to happen. The Lib Dems are 100% committed to self ID as a priority, as are the Greens. The SNP were too but are now consulting about it, remains to be seen what comes out of that but in terms of who specifically is involved it doesn't look good.

Do all parties apart from Tories say that with self-id men will 100% be able to say ‘I’m a woman’ and instantly be allowed into female only spaces? Literally that easily?

Yes. This is already happening, despite the fact that it is entirely legal to retain single SEX spaces that exclude all opposite sex people at the moment. If we lose the definition of woman we lose all our rights. ALL. OF. THEM. We also lose critical safeguarding around young girls.

That is why it is a vote changing issue. Safety of children and women's rights need to be defended above everything else (IMO). Even Brexit. Even austerity.

My options are more clear, Prodigal.

I live in a Conservative/LibDem swing seat. For this reason, it is one of Jo Swinson's Remainer Alliance of 60 seats. There are just three choices here: Conservative, LibDem or Labour.

Labour has no conceivable chance round here. A good GE for them is one where they scrape their deposit back.

The LibDem candidate is Helen Belcher.

Anyone who thinks I am actively going to help Helen Belcher take up residence in the HoC and have an even greater say over Self ID can think again.

Anyone who thinks I am going to help Helen Belcher indirectly by spoiling my ballot can think again.

I am voting Conservative.

I've already said this on another thread and been accused of not being a proper feminist. I don't care. I don't care what anyone says. My mind is made up.

I do appreciate that for others it is a far more difficult choice, however. It isn't for me.

But how can you vote for Tories? How? After everything they have done to women because of a bill that isn’t even in law yet.

I know I’m not going to change your mind, but apart from the GRA what policies do the Tories have that benefit women?

Also since someone mentioned the NHS earlier, self ID will mean that if you ask for a female HCP for a smear for example you may instead get a transwoman who may or may not have transitioned in any medical sense - under self ID this could be someone with a big bushy beard called Dave who says Daveself identifies as a woman. Various NHS trusts have indicated that they wish to remove the ability of patients to object to this. So if you're likely to need ongoing medical care, especially of an intimate nature, that's something you should probably know.

(Or if you have relatives who will.)

I would vote for a donkey if the donkey was running against Helen Belcher. Do you think there's any reasonable chance of making sure Belcher doesn't get in?

MustardScreams, I know you don't agree with me. We've already had this exchange on another thread.

I do not know your voting preferences and will not ask, because they are none of my business.

I have explained to you - once on the other thread, and now on here - exactly why I am voting Conservative.

Accept it. Don't accept it. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I am not changing my mind and I am not justifying myself to you.

I don't know, Prodigal. Brexit has complicated everything

I can only do my bit.

Also, to be very blunt, if it's no longer possible to define what a woman is accurately in law then it's also no longer possible to craft policies to benefit women, or enforce laws that do. That's rather the crux of the issue here.

It's been slipped this far without ever putting it in a manifesto or any other democratic process. This is deliberate, there are threads about this sharing the records of this being an intentional, planned strategy to prevent democracy stopping it. Self ID is already happening, with the law in place to stop it, which is why court cases are in process about this and women are writing to everyone in sight, holding meetings and all the rest of it.

Not only is this radically damaging to many vulnerable groups of women in the UK, and having practical impacts of assaults, rapes,(and we only know about the ones that have escaped into the newspapers), women homeless because there are no refuges they can access because of males in them (talk to the MNetter in this situation, she was in a tent the last I heard from her), this will remove women in law. Totally. You will not be able to see inequality for women and girls once this is done, the crime statistics have already been in the papers this week as no longer showing usable or analysable stats for female people because the group is females plus anyone else who wanted to identify.

As an example, I've seen multiple articles talking about the rate of rape committed by women rising. It is not possible to be convicted of rape under UK law if you don't have a penis. That's just one small example of how the changes being made result in a situation where it's no longer possible to accurately describe what's happening to women or who's responsible.