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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall

411 replies

Whatisthisfuckery · 21/02/2019 16:21

Just seen this on Twitter.

twitter.com/ruth_hunt/status/1098604129394585601?s=21

I’d like to think her successor will be less homophobic. We shall see, although I’m not holding out much hope.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
R0wantrees · 26/02/2019 12:43

There was some debate within Lords especially last autumn which has relevence. Due to Brexit a lot of bills and legislation have become derailed and not accorded sufficient time and scrutiny.

Charities criticised by lords over transparency and campaigning
14 Sep 2018
(extract
‘Charities have gone beyond their remits’
Lord Suri, a Conservative member of the house, said that he felt some charities had gone “beyond their remits to engage in political campaigns, using donations from members of the public and government grants to do so”.

He said there had been a “collapse in trust in charities in this country” and that the recent safeguarding scandal had “brought shame on the sector”.

This means, he said, that “charities ought to focus on their charitable activities, rather than attempting to become similar to think tanks in producing policy reports, lobbying and running campaigns during elections and referenda.”

But Suri said he sympathises with the sector as the wording of the rules is “unclear” and said: “If clearer legislation cannot be produced in amended form, it would be a magnanimous gesture for the Government to lay out in clear English the precise rights and obligations of third-party organisations.”

‘Reform needed urgently’
The debate was called by Lord Harries of Pentregarth, a retired bishop, to urge the government to revisit proposed amendments which would have benefitted charities.

Harries said: “The present legislation involves third-party campaigners in a disproportionate amount of time and expenditure trying to conform to it, and it causes areas of uncertainty about whether they are conforming to the law, which may inhibit them from campaigning.”

He added that: “There are important things to be done irrespective of Brexit, and one of them is improving the ill-thought-out and chilling legislation of part 2 of the Lobbying Act.”

Charities have long said that the act is having a chilling effect on their campaigning activity. A number of Lords yesterday referenced research from the Sheila McKechnie Foundation which found that 68 per cent of charities had changed their campaigns because of the legislation.

When the act was introduced it was agreed that it would reviewed. That review was carried out by Lord Hodgson and made a number of recommendations, such as shortening regulated periods and shifting the focus to the intent of the activity, that charities say would help to give them confidence to campaign. " (continues)

www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/charities-need-to-be-more-transparent-about-campaigning-say-lords.html#sthash.Gwbkf94F.dpuf

Needmoresleep · 26/02/2019 12:58

I think we may be saying the same thing.

I am saying the next CE needs to have strong political skills, read the room and start reining Stonewall in. If not clients will be catching on and starting to distance themselves.

I think you are suggesting that the various oversight mechanisms, like the charities commission need to step in.

Probably a mixture of both. And probably not enough of either. I suspect Stonewall does mot have the governance or will to reform from within. And given the extent of Stonewalls reach, too embarrassing to allow for public condemnation in the short term. Instead it will probably, as a tainted brand, wither away into obscurity.

I think there is space for a replacement lesbian organisation, able to pitch for some of the diversity training and consultancy.

R0wantrees · 26/02/2019 13:00

Yes. But how long did that take.
Yes Stonewall/Mermaids deserve thorough scrutiny. But I suspect we may have to wait till there are sufficient detransitioners. In short as long as we waited for Saville (and note the BBCs reluctance to broadcast) and Rotherham.

There are too many points of pressure to prevent an enquiry. Any enquiry into the medical treatment of childen who have identified as transgender will have to focus on the roles played by prominant charities who have been lobbyists such as Mermaids and Stonewall.

Professor Carl Heneghan was interviewed on last night's Panorama & as a consequence of his analysis concluded that 'informed consent is not possible'

BMJ EBM Spotlight paper:
Carl Heneghan
Editor in Chief BMJ EBM, Professor of EBM, University of Oxford

Tom Jefferson
Senior Associate Tutor University of Oxford
Visiting Professor Institute of Health & Society, Faculty of Medicine, Newcastle University

'Gender-affirming hormone in children and adolescents – Evidence review'
Posted on 25th February 2019

(extract)
"Gender dysphoria occurs when a person experiences discomfort or distress because of a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity. Gender dysphoria can arise in childhood and adolescent which raises many questions about how best to handle the condition. This post sets out the current evidence for gender-affirming hormones in adolescents and children to aid decision making. (continues)

"Conclusions

There are significant problems with how the evidence for Gender-affirming cross-sex hormone has been collected and analysed that prevents definitive conclusions to be drawn. Similar to puberty blockers, the evidence is limited by small sample sizes; retrospective methods, loss of considerable numbers of patients in follow-up. The majority of studies also lack a control group (only two studies used controls). Interventions have heterogeneous treatment regimes complicating comparisons between studies. Also adherence to the interventions are either not reported or at best inconsistent. Subjective outcomes, which are highly prevalent in the studies, are also prone to bias due to lack of blinding, and many effects can be explained by regression to the mean.

The development of these interventions should, therefore, occur in the context of research. Treatments for under 18 gender dysphoric children and adolescents remain largely experimental. There are a large number of unanswered questions that include the age at start, reversibility; adverse events, long term effects on mental health, quality of life, bone mineral density, osteoporosis in later life and cognition. We wonder whether off label use is appropriate and justified for drugs such as spironolactone which can cause substantial harms, including death. We are also ignorant of the long-term safety profiles of the different GAH regimens. The current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice."
blogs.bmj.com/bmjebmspotlight/2019/02/25/gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-evidence-review/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3518188-BMJ-Prof-Carl-Heneghan-Evidence-Based-Medicine-Oxford-Panorama-Trans-Kids-Gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-Evidence-review-concludes-There-are-significant-problems

Just as the MoJ investigation into thesexual assault of vulnerable female prisoners by the convicted male prolific sexual predator Karen White will forceinvestigation into the translobbyists who affected prison policy.

R0wantrees · 26/02/2019 13:03

I think you are suggesting that the various oversight mechanisms, like the charities commission need to step in.

There will be a number of enquiries including charity commission and parliamentary enquiries. They are inevitable.

The impact of the lobbying has impacted Safeguarding, Child Protection and Duty of Care to children and vulnerable adults.

TimeLady · 26/02/2019 13:04

Press for Change has been pressing for change surreptitiously behind the scenes for years. I wonder what part that organisation has had to play in all of this, whilst keeping its name well below the radar.

R0wantrees · 26/02/2019 13:07

Press for Change has been pressing for change surreptitiously behind the scenes for years. I wonder what part that organisation has had to play in all of this, whilst keeping its name well below the radar.

this thread is illuminating:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

R0wantrees · 26/02/2019 13:12

Press for Change has been pressing for change surreptitiously behind the scenes for years. I wonder what part that organisation has had to play in all of this, whilst keeping its name well below the radar.

Press For Change have been lobbying cross-party and no doubt played a key role in the changes at Stonewall.

17/10/18 on a FWR thread condemning Stephen Whittle's use of predicted suicide, he joined and commented confidently:

In the end we will pull ourselves together and continue the campaigning - as we have always done. We know we have Labour behind this one, so will simply do our best to get them elected. As I tell the community “we have always lost more battles than we have won, but we only ever need to win the big one”.

I hope that clarifies matters."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3397010-Guardian-article-on-MPs-concern-with-GRA?msgid=81891984#81891984

At Pink News party, Jeremy Corbyn apparently confirmed Whittle's belief:
'PinkNews Awards 2018: Jeremy Corbyn vows support for transgender reforms'
by Nick Duffy
(extract)
"Speaking about transgender rights, he said: “We must speak up for the trans community, who today face shocking attacks in the media - just as lesbian and gay people did in the 1980s - as well as now online, which can be a wonderful place but also a horrendous place where attacks take place.

“Labour supports reform of the Gender Recognition Act and Equality Act to allow for self-declaration. The deadline for Government’s consultation is on Friday.

“Trans people must be able to live full, healthy, and happy lives - being the person they want to be. Labour will stand up for their right to do so.”
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/17/jeremy-corbyn-pinknews-awards-2018/

Yesterday too, the Labour Party promoted Stonewall's guidance for the GRA:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3397280-Labour-party-promoting-Stonewall

threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398127-Stephen-Whittle-influential-TRA-asserts-We-know-we-have-Labour-behind-this-one-so-will-simply-do-our-best-to-get-them-elected-Corbyn-seems-to-confirm-this-at-Pink-News

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3390910-Can-we-talk-about-Pink-News-Collecting-examples-of-their-propaganda

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3375587-Press-for-Change

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3397127-Stephen-Whittle-Press-for-Change-irresponsible-use-of-likely-suicides-follows-Helen-Belchers-Trans-Media-Watch

See also the lobbying roles played by Pink News, Trans Media Watch etc

Needmoresleep · 26/02/2019 13:14

I am sure that organisations like the Lottery, the NSPCC and Girl Guides would get early wind of a major enquiry. Mermaids kept their money, the NAS still signpost to Mermaids, the Police adhere to their Stonewall written guidance, major lawfims and banks vie to be Stonewall top 100 employers.

It will change, and there will be a stampede when it does. But no sign yet. Which gives a new CE a window in which to act decisively. though they will bottle it

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 26/02/2019 13:18

It will change, and there will be a stampede when it does. But no sign yet. Which gives a new CE a window in which to act decisively.
Yes, this is the first step in a journey that will take years.

R0wantrees · 26/02/2019 13:20

I am sure that organisations like the Lottery, the NSPCC and Girl Guides would get early wind of a major enquiry. Mermaids kept their money, the NAS still signpost to Mermaids, the Police adhere to their Stonewall written guidance, major lawfims and banks vie to be Stonewall top 100 employers.

The lobbyists and advisors are still in place.
It won't be a single enquiry but a succession of threads are already being pulled and as questions are asked in various departments and organisations inevitably further ones will be required.
Its already happening in Scotland.

Needmoresleep · 26/02/2019 13:28

And Ruth Hunt going, can probably be considered a good first sign that the pressure is building.

EatCashews · 26/02/2019 13:31

Which is why it is so important to keep talking, keep writing to MPs, keep commenting, keep observing and recording ...

R0wantrees · 26/02/2019 13:34

And Ruth Hunt going, can probably be considered a good first sign that the pressure is building.

It could be a sign that she wishes a change from the pressures which have been building for sometime both within and without or any number of things.
As others have said, its a much much wider issue than one person.

FeedMeBooks · 26/02/2019 13:51

^^We know we have Labour behind this one, so will simply do our best to get them elected. As I tell the community “we have always lost more battles than we have won, but we only ever need to win the big one”.

Another key influencer as lgbt advisor to Labour. Has an IT background and looks to be the director of a company registered in Bermuda. Just donated £50k to Stonewall.
twitter.com/AnthonyWatson/status/1099956505019846656

EatCashews · 26/02/2019 14:02

Director of a company registered in a tax haven? For the many not the few, ah, ok ...

thatdamnwoman · 26/02/2019 14:31

Director of a company registered in a tax haven using his own money to shore up an increasingly controversial charity that offers almost nothing to 90% of the people it says it stands for (the LGBs) and is actually campaigning and making money out of the one strand (the Ts that a great many LGBs didn't want included) that threatens the rights of the lesbians it claims to represent but fails to listen to...

Got it.

Popchyk · 26/02/2019 14:34

Just reposting my post from upthread.

Anthony Watson paid £14K for Dawn Butler (Labour MP and Shadow Women and Equalities Minister) to attend an awards ceremony in LA. For nine days.

order-order.com/2018/05/29/dawn-butlers-14000-la-jolly-paid-for-by-blairite-guru/

So, yes, they know they've got Labour behind them.

R0wantrees · 26/02/2019 14:43

Dawn Butler MP Shadow Minister for Women & Equalities

Dawn Butler is firmly and apparently unquestioningly allied with TRAs

With Michael Cashman (one of the Stonewall founders who is resolute about its commitment to the trans rights agenda)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3220833-Frankly-disturbing-tweet-from-Michael-Cashman
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3193464-Another-lefty-misogynist-twat

(With Munroe Bergdorf leading 2019 London 'Women's March:
twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1086641623172296706

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3512177-Julia-Long-asking-Munro-Bergdorf-about-child-exploitation

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3486548-Not-all-menstruators-are-women-This-madness-has-to-stop-Julie-Bindel

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3483242-Womens-March-London-says-trans-voices-should-be-elevated-over-womens-voices

With Linda Riley /DIVA / Hannah & Jake Graf (Mermaids)
twitter.com/DIVAmagazine/status/1091300537788698624
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3442065-Divas-Linda-Riley-in-Private-Eye

relevent threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3487958-Womans-Place-UK-statement-LGBT-Labour-witch-hunts

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3211732-WPUK-meet-with-Dawn-Butler-Names-released-to-Pink-News

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3211692-Womans-Place-meeting-with-Dawn-Butler-Doxxed-by-Pink-News

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3399452-Dawn-Butler-on-the-GRA

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3080329-Dawn-Butler-on-the-Daily-Politics-programme

Dawn Butler was the Keynote speaker at Jane Fae's 'We're Still Here' TRA conference:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

Fae's article in The Independent which included allegations about 'Mumsnetters' being radicalised by 'the far right' discussed:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3518111-mumsnetdescribed-as-a-recruiting-ground-for-the-far-right-appealing-to-women

www.independent.co.uk/voices/far-right-feminism-womens-rights-racism-mumsnet-ukip-tommy-robinson-a8793451.html

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
Floomph · 26/02/2019 14:50

I was thinking last night about Jazz Jennings. I got sucked into read a Kiwi Farms thread about Jazz (and actually despite the nature of the site it was full of people saying how horrified they were on Jazz's behalf and what a crime it was that this kid had been pushed down this path)

And I was thinking that however devastating it is that this kid has had this botched surgery and faces years of complications, in some ways it's going to make a difference. Obviously more than anything I wish an 18 year old kid hadn't undergone genital mutilation and was facing a normal life but Jazz has had every privilege if you look at things from a TRA lens - lots of affirmation and support, early 'treatment,' the funds to pay for the best possible operation. And yet here they are with serious complications and problems ahead of them. And those complications might one day be life-threatening. It made me wonder how TLC is going to cover it all (at the moment they are deflecting from all that with the story of a 'boyfriend') but the reality is going to be so awful.

I just think it will make people stop and think. Marci Bowers was being questioned by Jazz whether the 3rd surgery could still give Jazz a 'beautiful vagina' and Marci's very sober response was 'it's all about compromise from here on in' And Jazz was in tears as a result. The kid is 18. These changes are irreversible. That's got to shock some people into scrutinizing this movement that much more.

FeedMeBooks · 26/02/2019 15:08

Anthony Watson and Linda Riley had a short lived business venture. Circles within circles.
beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09795353/officers

R0wantrees · 26/02/2019 15:13

Stonewall and Diva co-sponsored the full page advert in The Metro October 2018

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3397047-Full-page-advert-in-Metro#prettyPhoto

FlyingOink · 26/02/2019 15:14

This is an organisation directly setting out to lobby the government and others to remove female rights.

It should not be receiving govt or public sector money.

Lumene is right.

We definitely need some GC lawyers, and a running legal fund. So much of this needs to be fought in court.
I'll happily pay up.

FlyingOink · 26/02/2019 15:18

Circles within circles
It all definitely needs some sunlight.

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 26/02/2019 17:01

It made me wonder how TLC is going to cover it all

Unless they quietly cancel the show.

R0wantrees · 27/02/2019 12:58

Olly Lambert's twitter response to Graham Linehan's request 'I'd like to collect some anecdotes about when and why you first became involved in the debate about gender ideology/activism'

(OL was the Director of 'Trans Kids, Its Time to Talk' documentary)

"It was probably the moment I realised that not a single charity, journalist, support group or doctor who supported the affirmation of trans kids would take part in a documentary that wanted to ask valid questions about the treatment of …trans kids. THREAD 1/13

At the start of this, I’d undoubtedly have called myself an ally, and still do in a different way. Live and let live, give people the lives and freedoms they want, let kids live their true lives. /2

The film “Trans Kids: It’s Time to Talk” sought to ask if if the medication and affirmation of trans kids was always the right path. I’d expected passionate and articulate charities & campaign groups would want to take part and speak about how this process helps. /3

And yet in almost 20 years of making films, I’d never encountered such a systematic refusal to debate something so patently important. Every single "pro trans kids" group refused to speak, and I had to ask why. /4

Stonewall refused, saying that as the film included “gender critical” voices it would be ‘denying the existence of trans people’. This was laughable. Interviews with trans people make up nearly half the film. /5

Britain’s only private “gender GP” Helen Webberley said she’d take part on condition that Stephanie Davies-Arai and @David @DavidTCDavies were not included. Amazed, we asked if there were others she didn’t want us to talk to. She said she’d need to check the “little list” /6

Maria Miller MP didn’t have even ten minutes free in the following 3 months (!) to be interviewed about the Women’s & Equalities Select Committee (which she chairs), adding that she was no longer involved in the trans debate. (But… /7

...On the day Maria Miller wrote this to me, Stonewall sent an invitation to MPs inviting them to a “panel event on trans equality, held in partnership with Maria Miller MP…”) /8

Paris Lees pulled out of two meetings, both times on the day they were supposed to happen, before saying she didn’t have time to take part. /9

Mermaids had various reasons, falsely stating that the author & psychotherapist presenter @stellaomalley3 was “unqualified” and “confused”. They also wouldn’t take part because “the film will be one sided” (their refusal to take part only serving to make that more likely). /10

Lily Madigan refused because there was “nothing to debate”. /11

Jake Graf wouldn’t even speak on the phone. Owen Jones ignored all emails and requests via an intermediary. Jane Fae said no. Gendered Intelligence never replied to emails. And on and on. /12

The only organisation who I felt gave a valid reason was the Tavistock. After a long meeting with Polly Carmichael (who was thoughtful, nuanced and recognised the complexity) they ultimately declined saying they feared their words would be “weaponised” by all sides. /13

So my question remains: if a treatment is so right, if your position is so unarguably good, why not talk about it? Feeling that you’re so correct you can’t be disagreed with is a really, really bad look. /14

Anyway. We made the film. You can see it here:
vimeo.com/304866757 "

threader.app/thread/1100693458048770048

current thread collating responses to the same question from Mumsnet members:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3518546-help-a-brother-out

discussion about the documentary:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3430608-Stella-OMalley-Trans-Kids-Its-Time-To-Talk

Its not just a 'bad look' is a failure of Duty of Care and has massive implications for Safeguarding, Chilld Protection and Charity governance