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Women's March London says trans voices should be elevated over women's voices

266 replies

stumbledin · 19/01/2019 00:57

Women's march london is a fully intersectional and trans inclusive collective, as laid out in our guiding principles. We fully recognise trans women as women and sisters and welcome them to all our actions. We acknowledge that all who were assigned female at birth, including our trans brothers and some non-binary siblings share many of the same struggles and believe that the voices of trans men and AFAB non-binary people should always be heard and elevated in discussions of reproductive justice or menstrual equity.
We will not tolerate anyone who comes to our actions or our spaces with the intent to cause harm to others and believe that transphobia has no place in feminist action. Bread and Roses is an all genders action and one where we hope people of all genders and none can feel safe and welcome. If any trans sibling feels threatened or unsafe on the march we urge them to come speak to our stewards or one of the organisers and we will do our best to help.

www.facebook.com/womensmarchlondon/

www.womensmarchlondon.com/the-wmol-guiding-principles/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
HamiltonCork · 19/01/2019 09:49

What has monroe ever done for women? Fuck all.

R0wantrees · 19/01/2019 09:50

Elevating some voices above others smacks of Animal Farm.

“Comrades!' he cried. 'You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in taking these things is to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science, comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well-being of a pig. We pigs are brainworkers. The whole management and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink the milk and eat those apples.”
― George Orwell, Animal Farm

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
― George Orwell, Animal Farm

frazzled1 · 19/01/2019 09:50

Bread and Roses is absolutely a "People's March" led by women - women obv including anyone who says they're a woman...... .

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 19/01/2019 09:51

I would comment on what I think of Munroe but my comment would be deleted, so I will limit myself to saying "Fuck off, Munroe, and take your allies and your bullshit with you".

R0wantrees · 19/01/2019 10:06

Angela Raynor's Twitter comment this week suggests that Stephen Whittle is correct in his assertion on FWR thread, 'We know we have Labour behind this one, so will simply do our best to get them elected'

who is briefing & lobbying Labour MPs so effectively?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398127-Stephen-Whittle-influential-TRA-asserts-We-know-we-have-Labour-behind-this-one-so-will-simply-do-our-best-to-get-them-elected-Corbyn-seems-to-confirm-this-at-Pink-News

March 2018 Times: 'Labour’s LGBT+ adviser Munroe Bergdorf resigns after controversial tweets'
(extract)
"A Labour Party adviser on LGBT+ issues has resigned after The Times revealed that she had called a Twitter follower a “hairy barren lesbian” and said that she wanted to “gay bash” a television star.

Munroe Bergdorf, a transgender model and campaigner, announced this morning that she had stepped down from her position and blamed “attacks on my character by the conservative rightwing press”.

Her decision comes three days after The Times revealed offensive tweets she had written about lesbians and gay men. In one, she made fun of a friend, saying: “How’s your barren womb? We all know your little secret . . . hairy lesbian!”

It also comes on a key day for Labour over its approach to the transgender rights movement. The party’s equalities committee is due to approve a new statement which will reportedly say that its women-only parliamentary shortlists will be open to “self-defining” trans women — without the need for medical or other certification that they have changed gender." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labours-lgbt-adviser-munroe-bergdorf-resigns-after-controversial-tweets-bb20mq3hv?shareToken=133c7346f9058bf86eb334cdbe619013

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3186484-Bergdorf-has-resigned-as-LGBT-advisor-to-the-Labour-party

Women's March London says trans voices should be elevated over women's voices
Badstyley · 19/01/2019 10:10

Isn’t it transphobic to say transmen are female or something? I get confused, saying a transwoman is male will get you all sorts of threats and abuse and banned from twitter, but transmen are female? I can’t keep up.

Popchyk · 19/01/2019 10:15

If you rewrite that with the Black Lives Matter campaign in mind, you get:

Black Lives Matter is a fully intersectional and inclusive collective, as laid out in our guiding principles. We fully recognise that white people who identify as black are black.

We acknowledge that all who were assigned black at birth, including our white siblings share many of the same struggles and believe that the voices of white people should always be heard and elevated in discussions of oppression and justice.

We will not tolerate anyone who comes to our actions or our spaces with the intent to cause harm to others and believe that whitephobia has no place in black action.

Bread and Roses is an all races action and one where we hope people of all races and none can feel safe and welcome.

If any white sibling feels threatened or unsafe on the march we urge them to come speak to our stewards or one of the organisers and we will do our best to help.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 19/01/2019 10:19

I've no problem myself with transmen getting some attention here - as a group they seem to be ignored, unsupported and forgotten - but as far as I'm concerned transwomen should only be in the role of allies if they wish to be involved in a women's march.

ErrolTheDragon · 19/01/2019 10:21

We will not tolerate anyone who comes to our actions or our spaces with the intent to cause harm to others

Good. I don't want anyone harmed - so I hope they won't tolerate anyone who harms women and women's rights.

ChewyLouie · 19/01/2019 10:22

People’s March including women and since anyone can be female these days , it becomes a People’s March. A People’s March that elevates one group (biologically male) above the rest. Animal Farm indeed.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 19/01/2019 10:29

I agree with allthepretty

But i dont see what the voices of transmen should be elevated ....heard definitely but not elevated

There is a thread running about a 12 year olds periods at the moment, if as a person with a penis youve never gone through any of that...then you dont have a bloody say

Popchyk · 19/01/2019 10:33

Almost as if the trans community (male and female) gets to be at the heart of every single thing that women do.

And yet they are not insisting at being at the centre of everything that men do.

I wonder how transmen are getting on at Fathers 4 Justice?

Had a quick look at their site and they don't seem to be trans inclusive, strangely. No mention of female fathers, far less stating that female fathers are more oppressed than male fathers, therefore female fathers must be elevated in the organisation.

No doubt the TRAs will be straight onto them.

Badstyley · 19/01/2019 10:36

Sorry, didn’t make myself very clear. Transmen are female, so of course they should be included, but where they are acknowledged as being female, if one were to make the same observation, that a transwoman is male, they’d get accused of all sorts of hate and phobia. transmen’s natal sex is mentioned, but transwomen’s natal sex would garner all sorts of crap.

Popchyk · 19/01/2019 10:44

That's cos they are women, Bad.

You are allowed to refer to females by their biological sex. Because that's 'inclusive' and 'elevating'.

You are not allowed to refer to males by their biological sex. Because that's transphobia.

Something is only ever transphobic if it hurts the feelings of a biological man.

R0wantrees · 19/01/2019 10:47

"8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are."

www.reddit.com/r/Gender_Critical/comments/6kkeni/the_rules_of_misogyny/

R0wantrees · 19/01/2019 10:48

"4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified."

(I miss thebewilderness on FWR)

ChewyLouie · 19/01/2019 10:52

Popchyk yes looking forward to reading about a middle aged woman with four kids declaring she’s a trans man then demanding Fathers4Justice now centre her needs. Seems odd that TRAs are not harassing them to change their logo symbol and to include the needs of transmen as much as male born fathers. All this work is very much in one direction- for the benefit of mtf transitioners.
It could be argued that Stephen Whittle seems intent on dismantling and stamping out women’s rights I can’t see a similar campaign for his fellow transmen.

littlbrowndog · 19/01/2019 10:52

Good one popchyck

deepwatersolo · 19/01/2019 11:06

Why would womensmarchlondon organize not a women's march but a people's march? Where is the logic in that? Shouldn't they call themselves peoplesmarch london for consistency? I mean, what is next? will womensmarchlondon swim in Glasgow?

Popchyk · 19/01/2019 11:13

Doormat feminism.

Can't see it lasting long.

WongaGoneWronga · 19/01/2019 11:18

The thread title is misleading - there's isn't anything in that statement that says "over" or "above" either directly or indirectly, and there are posts in response that seem to have got the wrong end of the stick on what the statement actually says.

....believe that the voices of trans men and AFAB non-binary people should always be heard and elevated in discussions of reproductive justice or menstrual equity. ...

Trans men and AFAB non-binary, not all trans people.

Elevated in, not above or over.

In discussion of reproductive and menstrual things, not unilaterally.

Plus it's centreing people who we're born female, which I'm inclined to think is a good thing and seems to be what's most people on this board would like to see more of.

R0wantrees · 19/01/2019 11:24

elevated
/ˈɛlɪveɪtɪd/
adjective
situated or placed higher than the surrounding area.

(of a level or amount) higher or greater than normal.

of a high intellectual or moral level.

Popchyk · 19/01/2019 11:25

"Bread and Roses is an all genders action and one where we hope people of all genders and none can feel safe and welcome".

How is that centering female people exactly?