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Stephen Whittle’s blog on Genderquake - with a detailed briefing for panelists

(118 Posts)
flowersonthepiano Mon 14-May-18 13:54:27

Stephen Whittle’s blog on Genderquake with a briefing for panelists including the following gems:

“male and female are biological categories which were defined when science was not properly aware of the complexities of the ‘natural’ body”

“‘Self-identification’ doesn’t mean anyone can get legal gender recognition, but it would mean trans people no longer have to be diagnosed as having a mental illness.”

How is that good for people with such high rates of suicide ideation who need care?

“Unfortunately, the Rules don’t allow trans prisoners to be placed in a prison of their preferred gender role until they have obtained legal gender recognition.”

“The UK has an excellent child and adolescent Gender Identity Clinic as part of a larger mental health trust – but it is only one for the entire nation of 66 million people.

Whilst the Clinic provides an excellent service,
· it cannot cope with the numbers seeking help, and
· there is no doubt that it has increasingly drawn flak from some feminist women who object to the idea of affording children any support in their preferred gender identity.
PFC REPEATEDLY states that

•children do not receive cross-gender hormones and
•no child has ever been given gender reassignment surgery,
but the Feminist attacks have been sufficiently vocal to make clinicians very nervous about the provision of the service.”

blatantly neglects to mention puberty blockers...

Note the frequent references to “Press for Change (PFC)” which is described as “the UK trans lobby group”. A week or so ago newspaper editors were hauled before a parliamentary committee and grilled for suggesting that there is even such thing as trans lobby group. Suggesting that stating there is a trans lobby was labelled bigoted/hate speech.

Stephen Whittle is a very influential person. The views above are being inculcated into our society. It’s clear they recognize the influence that feminist protests have had in stalling the proposed changes to the GRA and making clinicians think how they handle children who arrive in their consulting rooms.

You are doing a great job! It wouldn’t surprise me if Stephen Whittle had a hand in recent efforts to silence the MumsNet FWR boards, but then I am getting a bit tin-foil hatty these days....

auntycartmanslargertesticle Mon 14-May-18 14:26:40

I want to look that parliamentary committee up. Do yo have a date?

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth Mon 14-May-18 14:30:01

"•children do not receive cross-gender hormones and
•no child has ever been given gender reassignment surgery,"

Except Mermaid's CEO Susie Green's child. Or do they not like speaking about that?

ToeToToe Mon 14-May-18 14:37:53

Was it Stephen W who said "we managed to get the GRA 2004 through very quietly, with hardly any raised eyebrows" or somesuch? And has posted on here, including wistful memories of sexual activity on a Guides trip?

I imagine SW and co are most pissed off with feminists raising awareness on Twitter, Mumsnet, organising meetings and so on - they probably hoped to sneak through the GRA amendments and self ID with as little fuss.

Bowlofbabelfish Mon 14-May-18 14:39:05

“male and female are biological categories which were defined when science was not properly aware of the complexities of the ‘natural’ body”

No. No Stephen, they aren’t. They are words used to define specific biological categories. Those categories are well defined by science and stand up to scrutiny with all our current knowledge of biology, development and genetics.

If you want to argue science with a scientist, I’m here... as are several other developmental biologists, geneticists and biologists.

BetsyM00 Mon 14-May-18 14:39:43

I'm not going to the blog but I'll chortle along with the points you've made from it:

"male and female are biological categories which were defined when science was not properly aware of the complexities of the ‘natural’ body”
If it was all so complex the next generation would never have been born 200,000 years ago.

"Self-identification doesn’t mean anyone can get legal gender recognition"
Yes it does. I am going to change mine if it becomes law, just because I can.

“Unfortunately, the Rules don’t allow trans prisoners to be placed in a prison of their preferred gender role until they have obtained legal gender recognition.”
Ha, if only that was the case!

“The UK has an excellent child and adolescent Gender Identity Clinic as part of a larger mental health trust – but it is only one for the entire nation of 66 million people."
No it's not, there's a young persons GIC in Sandyford, Glasgow.

"children do not receive cross-gender hormones"
Helen Webberley was touting her services under the #genderquake on Twitter.

cistersofterfy Mon 14-May-18 14:49:28

I've met a 15 year old taking cross-gender hormones. It's already happening. Not via the NHS admittedly.

Also there's a GIC planned for S Wales.

flowersonthepiano Mon 14-May-18 14:59:45

The parliamentary committee was on 24 April

Four hour long video here

BowelofBabelFish fellow molecular biologist here smile. I don't think Stephen Whittle cares about any science that does not support their agenda.

JoanSummers Mon 14-May-18 15:01:31

The relevant information of Green's history is totally public and undeniable, much of it put out there by herself.

Eventually some investigative journalist is going to reveal the whole lot, esp as interest and concern about transitioning children grows. It may take another scandal or two about Mermaids but I think we can be sure that is coming.

whoputthecatout Mon 14-May-18 15:02:41

Whittle's a right numpty isn't he?

nauticant Mon 14-May-18 15:07:08

The relevant information of Green's history is totally public and undeniable, much of it put out there by herself.

It might be but it seems that whenever anyone refers to this on the Internet who isn't praising Green, then there's likely to be a deletion or a load of criticism about "how can you bring talking about a child into this?" or "euw! you're referring to a child's genitals, there's something wrong with you!"

R0wantrees Mon 14-May-18 15:08:18

There seems to be some differences between approaches between GIDs / Mermaids as raised by James Kirkup:

"Dr Bernadette Wren of the GIDS said this:
“I know that Susie and Mermaids would like a fast track so that young people who are already well into puberty and feel that they know that they want to move forward into physical intervention would bypass our assessment process and move straight into physical intervention. We feel that is not an ethical way to practise.

Here’s another summary. A transgender charity that says it is engaged in lobbying lobbied politicians and doctors to change the way children are treated by doctors. The doctors declined to make that change because it would be not be ethical to do so."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

Additionally,
to recent blog by GenderGP (Dr Webberley)gendergp.co.uk/why-are-trans-teenagers-resorting-to-diy-trans-pills-from-cowboy-chemists/
includes comment,

"The chatrooms and forums that discuss the medication regimes and monitoring are in many cases well-informed and correct. They offer experience and advice for those who are desperate. They offer information and treatment plans that people should be getting from their GP, but they’re not. The medical management of gender dysphoria is regarded as so specialist that it can only be provided for in a few NHS tertiary referral centres in the UK, yet the transgender community have done their own research and share it widely to those who are in need."

which is interesting in light of comments in Times article
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-teenagers-in-online-drug-danger-qbqhxp8ps

The Tavistock and Portman NHS foundation trust, the only NHS facility specialising in child gender identity, said they had a waiting time of 14 months for under-18s, and 14 to 15 months for adults. “There is all manner of different advice across the web and social media regarding self-medication, and we wouldn’t endorse any of it,” a spokesman said.

“We are concerned that potentially vulnerable young people could be misadvised by the discussions and resources online and act hastily.”

Advice from the charity Mermaids, which raises awareness about gender nonconformity in children and young people, suggests that while “the internet is the best resource out there” to learn more about trans people and find information, “don’t believe everything you read! There is lots of inaccurate information and people tend to have biased opinions, particularly on forums”.

A recent segment on R4 focussed on the waiting times for children and young people to access Tavistock, included interview with Dr Polly Carmichael. Discussed here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3229756-Transgender-child-on-R4-World-at-One

From GenderGP blog etc, there seems to be a push by some for GPs to be able to refer to prescribe 'bridging prescriptions' / refer to other 'specialist' clinics whilst waiting (in line with other protocols in primary care)

"The GMC has clear guidance for doctors to help their patients who have resorted to self-medication, so that they can prescribe bridging prescriptions to help keep their patients safe. In reality, though, many people who come to me for help and advice have found their doctor reluctant to offer help of this kind"

Dr Webberley outlined her approach in a recent article:
"I have been very open about my individualised approach to the treatment of transgender patients, irrespective of age, and my firm belief that they should be able to access the support and medication they need in a timely and supportive manner, and where possible via their GP. In line with self-identification of gender, I firmly advocate informed consent and individualised care"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3243516-Dr-Helen-Webberley-GenderGP-Interview-in-The-Independent-re-GenderQuake-Debate

Recent threads re puberty blockers / hormones:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3228409-DM-Article-NHS-sex-change-drugs-are-putting-hundreds-of-children-at-risk-each-year-warns-top-doctor

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3227666-Puberty-blockers-Lupron

flowersonthepiano Mon 14-May-18 15:09:49

Imo Stephen Whittle is very far from being a numpty. Smart, persuasive, persistent, highly successful in progressing the trans agenda and dangerous to women and girls would be my assessment.

BoreOfWhabylon Mon 14-May-18 15:12:30

I am convinced that Mermaids will eventually be viewed as a combination of Kids' Company and the Thalidomide scandals.

The great and the good won't be able to distance themselves fast enough.

R0wantrees Mon 14-May-18 15:13:27

Stephen Whittle joined Mumsnet discussion here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3212371-Where-are-all-the-trans-men-An-Answer

JoanSummers Mon 14-May-18 15:19:24

Seems to me that threads that discuss the actions of certain people (Jenner, Green, the Jennings parents) seem to end up holey or disappeared? Not sure what is allowed to be discussed here?

R0wantrees Mon 14-May-18 15:23:35

Article from 2013 with account of how Press For Change came to be formed also reference to Trans Media Action and the background to many prominent activists:
www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/voices-from-trans-community-prejudice

Terfulike Mon 14-May-18 15:25:48

Bowl of babel

Is there anything we molecular biologists can do to stop this false science that Whittle is helping to spread?

Terfulike Mon 14-May-18 15:26:35

A letter to the BMj perhaps

BlazeAway Mon 14-May-18 15:26:45

I imagine he will be clever — he went to a very good secondary school!

Although when I was there there was a pretty strong feminist attitude about doing anything we wanted and fighting harmful stereotypes, so he seems somewhat off message there.

Bowlofbabelfish Mon 14-May-18 15:29:04

Is there anything we molecular biologists can do to stop this false science that Whittle is helping to spread?

I just try to counter it in here whenever I get some TRA spouting science word salad... not sure what else I can do sad

R0wantrees Mon 14-May-18 15:31:26

I imagine SW and co are most pissed off with feminists raising awareness on Twitter, Mumsnet, organising meetings and so on - they probably hoped to sneak through the GRA amendments and self ID with as little fuss.

From the Guardian article linked above, interesting comment by Christine Burns, "
"Much of their campaigning remained on the quiet. The passage of the 2004 law to give trans people legal status was "remarkable," says Burns, because "the government was able to pass an entire act in parliament without anyone throwing a fit in the press"

flowersonthepiano Mon 14-May-18 15:34:28

@Bowlofbablfish @Terfulike What about a letter to New Scientist? I'd be up for that.

OldCrone Mon 14-May-18 15:35:00

‘Self-identification’ doesn’t mean anyone can get legal gender recognition

Yes it does, Stephen. That's exactly what 'self-identification' means. What do you think it means?

I really shouldn't have clicked on the link in the OP.

Does anyone really imagine a criminal man pretending to be a woman going through the motions of obtaining a Gender Recognition certificate? This would mean altering his legal status throughout his life; getting a new passport as a woman, changing his gender on his driving licence, his employment record, his pay slips, his bank card, his medical records, and having his educational and professional certificates altered so he can commit a crime in the ladies’ loos.

Does he really think all we're concerned about is people committing crimes in the ladies' loos? For a lawyer, he shows an amazing amount of sloppy thinking. You can change your sex on your passport and driving licence without a GRC. And the sex marker on the UK driving licence is not obvious anyway. I only found out it was there recently. Bank cards don't show your sex. Medical records should be based on biological sex, for reasons of safety. I'm not sure where employment record and certificates come into this at all.

The alternative proposed, is to ban all people from changing their legal gender, unless they have full genital reconstruction surgery, and then enforcing that rigorously by having physical examinations of applicants.

Whittle is a lawyer. He knows that this would be against EU law. Why write something that he knows to be untrue?

Smart, persuasive, persistent, highly successful in progressing the trans agenda and dangerous to women and girls would be my assessment.

Exactly this.

R0wantrees Mon 14-May-18 15:38:55

Parliamentary events:
9th May Caitlin Jenner speaks on Diversity
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3240113-caitlyn-jenner-to-speak-to-parliament

15th May Stonewall reception for MPs
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3223840]]-[[Parliament-hosting-Stonewall-panel-event-on-trans-issues-and-changes-to-GRA

17th May Peter Kyle MP (Labour) Has secured a 3 hour debate in the Commons to mark International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia, and Biphobia.

4th June Westminster forum on Next Steps for Transgender Equality
www.westminsterforumprojects.co.uk/conference/transgender-equality-2018

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242812--Amnesty-International-Mermaids-and-Stonewall-have-signed-an-open-letter-to-Penny-Mordaunt-stating-the-importance-of-reforming-the-Gender-Recognition-Act

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