Women's March London says trans voices should be elevated over women's voices

[stumbledin]

Women's march london is a fully intersectional and trans inclusive collective, as laid out in our guiding principles. We fully recognise trans women as women and sisters and welcome them to all our actions. We acknowledge that all who were assigned female at birth, including our trans brothers and some non-binary siblings share many of the same struggles and believe that the voices of trans men and AFAB non-binary people should always be heard and elevated in discussions of reproductive justice or menstrual equity.
We will not tolerate anyone who comes to our actions or our spaces with the intent to cause harm to others and believe that transphobia has no place in feminist action. Bread and Roses is an all genders action and one where we hope people of all genders and none can feel safe and welcome. If any trans sibling feels threatened or unsafe on the march we urge them to come speak to our stewards or one of the organisers and we will do our best to help.

www.facebook.com/womensmarchlondon/

www.womensmarchlondon.com/the-wmol-guiding-principles/

Dear me, Jon Ronson:
Ok. I was feeling a little silly and giddy last night and didn’t realize I was leaping into a minefield so I will delete that tweet.
What a wuss.
Thankfully some men have a little more backbone.

And all he did was joke around about calling some superhero flick 'the ejaculators'.

And now a "let's rephrase our clearly wrong statement so it's incomprehensible" non-apology:

twitter.com/womensmarchlon/status/1087317471722438658

2015 TedTalk
Jon Ronson: 'How to Ruin Your Life with One Tweet'
concludes
"maybe there are two people in the world, those people who favour humans over ideology and those people who favour ideology over humans. I favour humans over ideology but right now the ideologues are winning and they are creating a stage for constant articial high dramas where everyone is either a magnificent hero or a sickening villain. Even though we know that's not true of our fellow humans. Whats true is that we are clever and stupid. Whats true is that we are grey areas. The great thing about Social Media was how it gave a voice to the voiceless people but we are now creating a surveillance society where the smartest way to survive isto go back to being voiceless.

Lets not do that"

That is an awesomely apt quote R0wantrees. The last sentence sums up Ronson's cowardice so well.

I agree with Ronson's conclusion.

Not sure what his 'cowardice' is though?

His self-preservation of deleting when he sees he's out of step with the orthodoxy in a discussion that has a gender identity aspect.

As he said, "Whats true is that we are clever and stupid"

Maybe he will now reflect and become appraised of the bigger picture.
A lot of people haven't thought about things.

Statement.

Its extraordinary that they claim how language matters without any realisation of TRAs manipulation by language they are complicit with.

twitter.com/Sorrelish/status/1087325725479391233?s=20

"At this stage in the trans debate it's case of saying something nice or nothing at all"

Handmaiden guilt trips and ticks off Ronson.

If womensmarchlondon really thought language mattered they would be able to define 'woman'. Considering they have 'woman' in their name and all...

September 2018 James Morton''s comments at the TRA conference 'We're Still Here' organised by Jane Fae:

OP TheHarpySings wrote:
(extract)
"6) GETTING THE GRA WE WANT

This was a workshop with 3 experts sitting with groups and talking through activism. They were:

Helen Belcher (Lib Dems, Trans Media Watch)
James Morton (Scottish Transgender Alliance)
Alex Moore (GenderJam). Moore is from N Ireland.

James Morton gave some insight into tactics the TRAs will probably start using in England and Wales as they were successful in Scotland.

He said the TRAs need to build allies in mainstream women and children’s organisations so it looks like they care about them.

He also said what worked in Scotland's was a “constructive, friendly, innocent” tone when debating or in dialogue with the GC side. To be mindful about who is watching- essentially like what we do with the lurkers on the FWR board. To make the TRAs look like the reasonable side.

James also said that in dialect with elected officials, to clarify that the trans side aren’t silencing anyone but want to clarify the misconceptions being bandied around by GC feminists.

The Scottish GRA changes will probably be put forward in the 2019-2020 parliamentary year.

Belcher has been meeting with MPs and members of the House of Lords. Most of them don’t really understand the GRA and don’t have much time to think about it thanks to the Brexit FUBAR. “Education” of law makers is needed and that’s what Belcher is doing.

Apparently the TRAs lack the infrastructure they had in the 1990s and early 2000s so they need to think carefully and coordinate.

Belcher said to re-iterate to MPs that the EA2010 is not being affected and no one is losing any rights (wtf).

Apparently in terms of political support, the Tories are split about 50/50, Labour, Lib Dem's and SNP are all onside. The Greens were NOT mentioned.

The big fear on the TRA side is that this Government won’t survive long enough to get this through- again because Brexit.

According to Alex Moore, Arlene Foster of the DUP went to a Pink News event and didn’t seem to know much about this. In NI no one really cares about the trans issues because everyone is focused on same sex marriage and abortion.

Alex then moaned about the Together for Yes campaign’s transmisogyny and that the campaign completely erased the experiences of trans and NB people who need abortions. Alex would like a legal change of gender to be free of charge and as easy as changing your name.

Helen Belcher was annoyed at GC feminists using “emotive arguments” regards rape.

HB said that the pile ons pro self-ID MPs get from the GC side if they say something supportive of the trans side are not helping the GC cause. Maria Miller told Belcher that MPs got loads of abuse in the run up to marriage equality and that abusive messages, tweets from GC feminists will only harden MPs against the GC side.

HB also said something snide about “mouthy” female Labour MPs who speak before thinking on Twitter- especially on a Friday or Saturday night after they’ve had a few drinks.

Apparently the TRAs have civil service support and that the Stonewall report and Gov survey are strong bits of evidence they have which is helping them win arguments.

They are saying there is no risk to reforming the GRA and are asking MPs “what is the risk?”

In the group I was in they also talked about how changing your gender multiple times should be allowed and shouldn’t be seen as “bad intentions”.

James Morton talked about how they can get rid of “gender” markers on things like IT systems and places where it isn’t relevant- apparently GDPR might be able to help them here.

JM’s campaigning tips were to gain trust in the local community- and to approach moderate feminists, “correct misconceptions and forgive any ignorance they may have displayed”. They want to gain trust and make themselves likeable.

Apparently small acts like helping to campaign about period poverty or retweeting the local branch of Women’s Aid will make a difference and result in some reciprocation. They want to make it look like they care about Women's issues so they don’t appear threatening" (continues)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

Dawn Butler gave the keynote speech (see thread for report)
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dawn-butler-transgender-uk-labour-intersectionality-rights-a8534761.html

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374614-John-Ozimek-now-Jane-Fae-on-women-feminists-and-victims-of-pornographers

It's incredible how in one tweet with limited characters, they were able to use THREE insulting terms (cis / AFAB / menstruators) when simply saying "women" in the first place would have solved all their problems (other than their made up problem of how to include transwomen in a discussion on tampon tax)

"lived experience of cis women" indeed.

My identity is human thank you very much. The difference between me and somebody who identifies as 'non-binary' is that I'm not under the impression that anybody else fits neatly into a gender box.

However none of that has anything to do with whether I have periods which is a consequence of one thing - female biology.

It's notable that Women's March London, while knowing nothing about the identity of any of these MPs, was able to confidently assert that it is likely that they had menstruated based on the observation that they are adult human females.

Forget to be woke for a minute and reality reasserts itself.

I'm losing track - is this the third tweet? And they still can't bring themselves to say, 'Sorry, women, we fucked up.'

They won’t because mens feelings trumps womens.

Daily Mail, 'Fury as organisers of the London's Women's March call female politicians including Margaret Thatcher and Barbara Castle 'menstruators' on Twitter in a bid to be inclusive to transgender participants'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6614821/Womens-March-refers-female-MPs-menstruators-Twitter.html

he he he

they've made themselves look proper fools

of course people tar all feminists with the same brush, so I'd really rather that Women's March showed some actual respect towards women that would be super

Speaking of foolish (from standard online - sorry can’t do links)

Martina Big on This Morning: Holly Willoughby in shock as white couple who identify as black claim they will have a black child

The German couple sparked outrage with comments on their unconceived child's appearance

Holly Willoughby was left stunned by a white couple who identify as black after they claimed a doctor told them they will have a black child.

Martina Big, 30, has radically altered her appearance with tanning injections to become a black woman, saying she now "100 per cent identifies" as one.

The former glamour model, who was once a peroxide blonde white woman, made an appearance on Monday's show with her
new husband Michael Eurwen.

Willoughby questioned the couple on having children, asking: "Doctors have told you that you baby will be be black?"

The tanning obsessive replied: "They will be black. We are not having plans, but I am discussing with my doctor to see if my body is okay, will I be able to breastfeed, what the baby will look like."

Asked what would happen if they had a white child, Martina insisted she would love her child even if the infant was "milk chocolate" leaving Willoughby stunned.
"It's a mix of Michael and me," she said. "I'm pretty sure it will be black or milk chocolate or a little bit lighter, it doesn't matter."

Willoughby hastily wrapped up the interview as viewers slammed the "disgusting" comment.

One wrote: "#ThisMorning so because she's had skin darkening injections she thinks she will have black babies?! Did I hear her say she doesn't mind if the child is 'milk chocolate'?! OMG!!!"

Another raged: "#ThisMorning woah woah did she actually just say 'If it's milk chocolate' oh holy f*.

A third wrote: "I'm sorry, but no amount of cosmetic changes will affect your genetics. If you were born white, your children will be white. I think Martina needs to find a new doctor. #ThisMorning."

Speaking about her transformation, Martina told the show: "It's really hard to find the right words to explain to people. The injections started the process. In February I was in Kenya to learn more about the culture and I was there for seven years

She claimed she took a new form of melatonin injections to tan her skin, but was unaware it would work so well.

Her husband Michael, 31, has also had injections but they have not had the same effect as his wife.

if female humans (women) are menstruaters then it follows that male humans who believe themselves to be woman must ejaculators

MB’s misogyny drips from every word - and yet someone thought MB was a suitable speaker to have at a so-called Women’s March...

Someone’s got to keep those pesky women in their place.

A kind and honest conversation, eh? It's not honest if people aren't allowed to say that they know that women don't have cocks, and I'm guessing any woman pointing that out would not be treated kindly at all.

Maria Maclachlan article,
'Blog: The Handmaidens’ Tales'
(extract)
"This is the post in which I express my anger against those young women who’ve betrayed the goal of women’s liberation by promoting male entitlement and female erasure. And, no, contrary to what certain trans rights activists (TRAs) such as Stephen Whittle say, the term ‘handmaidens’ isn’t misogynist. Misogyny refers to contempt and disregard for women because they are women, i.e. adult human female. It doesn’t include the disdain we feel for women who are selling us down the river, the women who prioritise the feelings of men over the psychological well-being and the physical safety of women. The true meaning of ‘handmaiden’ is female servant and that, in effect, is what these women are. They’re like ‘Uncle Toms’.

I don’t expect to have to elaborate on the fact that women have, throughout history and across cultures, been oppressed and exploited because we are female and ‘female’ refers to the sex whose role in reproduction is to produce ova, gestate and give birth. The fact that an individual female chooses not to or may, for medically verifiable reasons, be unable to fulfil that function, does not alter the fact that she is female though, thanks to the patriarchal norms holding sway in most cultures throughout the world, it may mean that she is considered a failure by those who feel entitled to adjudicate on such matters.

Feminism is a movement for women – all women – but only women. This isn’t to deny intersecting experiences of oppression such as class oppression, racism, ageism, homophobia, disability. But it does not include men who think, wish, decide or claim they are women. Men who do that are not members of the female sex class, therefore they are not women, regardless of how they feel, present themselves or what they call themselves." (continues)

concludes:
"I can’t improve on the comment made by the heroic Helen Steel at the top of this post.

The handmaidens unquestioning acceptance of men who want to redefine what it means to be a woman cannot be reconciled with feminism in any shape or form. In promoting the idea that refusal to pander to men’s claims that they can be women is “lack of decency”, “bad grace”, “twisted” – even harassment or violence – they have helped to cultivate an environment in which actual violence against women is seen as justified.

Handmaidens, you are betraying the struggles waged by generations of feminists against men who use violence and abuse to keep women in their place.

Shame on you."
Published 31.12.18

www.peaktrans.org/the-handmaidens-tales/

current thread, OP Bittermints wrote:
'The cumulative effect is pretty strong. Must have been put together today or last night, as it includes Munroe Bergdorf addressing the women's march and the foot-in-mouth tweet from the women's march about menstruators.'

angrybirdroar.wordpress.com/2019/01/21/say-what-you-see/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3485780-Angry-Birds-blog-post-all-visual