Martina Navratilova states the obvious

[Glinner]

twitter.com/Martina/status/1075193284660785153

At first I was delighted to see thisat last a big name in women's sport is speaking up! but then I got angry all over again that this utterly obvious point has to be explained to an adult, in this case, a Guardian journalist. It boggles the mind.

You cannot win on an individual level with someone who does not play by any rules, who has no morals and who delights in dominating and winding up other people.....

very very true, indie.
Sadly, it is also true that if you have never had close contact with this type of person, then the sideline viewers tend to think "well, they're as bad as each other".

And the lovely line taken by M Obama of "they go low, we go high" ....well, that ends up in a situation where the abuser/narcissist "wins".

Unfortunately, for those same sideline viewers, the abuser will never have satisfaction from their "win" and will always look for a new target. So, while you may not be in the firing line right now, at some point the abuser/narcissist will impinge on you.

For someone of Martina's wisdom and strength, engagement is probably not the best option. There is no persuading, no logic, no argument that will open the mind of an abuser.

the lovely line taken by M Obama of "they go low, we go high" ....well, that ends up in a situation where the abuser/narcissist "wins".

Indeed. The 'be a bigger person' approach is interpreted as weakness. At the same time, an abusive person often relies upon their victim holding onto a social code and behaviour standards they don't themselves feel bound by. They know there are levels and retaliations to which their victim will never stoop, while they themselves have no boundaries or conscience about the tactics they use.

You often see outrage and hurt bewilderment on the part of an abuser when someone treats them in the way they freely treat others, or applies normal standards of consequences to them. They often show a demand for punishment, sympathy and comfort that they have been so dreadfully treated and it was so unpleasant and distressing for them to experience. Yet the much lower standards of 'human' they assign to others blocks any empathy they feel for others experiencing that same assault from them, and creates strong beliefs that the person deserved it, and it was just and right they should be treated this way.

Issendai's work is revealing in the way this kind of mind works, and in relationship terms demonstrating why the only way to deal with an abuser of this type is to break off all contact. No negotiating, reasoning, compromising, boundary setting, will ever be successful.

The one thing I’ve learnt with dealing with a raging narcissist is do not give an inch.

Don’t apologise
Don’t make concessions
Do not engage with their utter insanity

The best thing to do is to tell them to go fuck themselves and then block. Otherwise their need to control, dominate and conquer will win.

To a narcissist attempts at compromise read as weakness, which they will then try to take advantage of. Like Hamilton said, don't give an inch. If they're so fixated they won't leave you alone, grey rock.

Yes, there's a reason why so many people of conscience, over the centuries, have become martyrs - because going high is great eternally speaking, but in this world, going low will win every time because that's the nature of cheating.

It's a conundrum, and a hard fact to swallow, and I will cling tenaciously to the high ground in terms of telling the truth, but I will not foolishly expose my jugular.

There's a biblical phrase which seems apt "As innocent as doves, but as wise as serpents". Be true to truth, but employ wisdom.

@knicknack, I had never heard of Issendai thanks for mentioning, I will look into his work....

That's my experience, Hamilton. Unfortunately it takes a long time to get to that point. In my case (dealing with a relative) 15 years spent wasted pandering to their ups and downs and having my life turned upside down by their revenge attacks. Even following us to new towns, turning up a few villages away, after we moved away. Lessons learned the hard way! These TRAs and their attack dog/poor me tactics ring all my alarm bells.

Indeed. The 'be a bigger person' approach is interpreted as weakness. At the same time, an abusive person often relies upon their victim holding onto a social code and behaviour standards they don't themselves feel bound by. They know there are levels and retaliations to which their victim will never stoop, while they themselves have no boundaries or conscience about the tactics they use.

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

Word it's well explained, well evidenced stuff: www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html and a number of good articles also on the blog.

They know there are levels and retaliations to which their victim will never stoop, while they themselves have no boundaries or conscience about the tactics they use

Reminds me of when we were burgled. You make sure everything is closed, you put the right locks on the doors, gate etc and the bastards just break the window frame.

I wonder if Martina will have earned a place on terfblocker. Jack monroe appears to have been placed on some sort of block list

Jack Monroe
@BootstrapCook
I seem to have suddenly been blocked by a large number of trans campaigners on twitter. What did I do? 🤔

McKinnon is STILL tweeting about Martina. A horrible misogynistic bully.

McKinnon seems to be on the defensive. *e 'doth protest too much'.

It look like McKinnon has put a whole load of info, about why males should not be participation in female sports, in one place.

I really hope those reading that twitter feed will see how bullying and that all is. And will also see that branding anything that makes distinctions between the sexes as phobic for transgender people is crap.

Transphobia has totally lost its meaning and I would imagine that this kind of negative, bullying behavior has not led to better interactions for the average transgender or transexual person.

All the emphasis on elite athletes and celebrities doesn't help ordinary people with gender dysphoria.

I think all McKinnon is continuing to do is show how male entitlement works in sports. I hope those following the McKinnon twitter feed are noticing.

I can't say I will ever want to support elite sporting events that prioritize males over females.

McKinnon is continuing to show how male entitlement works in sports
McKinnon is doing a marvelous job of scoring goals for the other side
keep it up McKinnon😄

sorry haven't RTFT but all I'm getting is
"Page does not exist" so presumably this tweet has been deleted?
Or Martina has been suspended?

I seem to have suddenly been blocked by a large number of trans campaigners on twitter. What did I do?

Rejoice Jack! And pretend you never supported this toxic MRA gang in the first place.

The original tweet has been deleted, I think. Does anyone have a link for McKs continuing efforts? (I don't use Twitter and not sure how to find things).

Reading accounts of transwomen like Delia Johnston it always becomes increasingly hard to see how these people are part of an "opressed group" in any way.
I mean, is feeling a bit awkward about using women's loos, but otherwise rising to exceptional prominence due to your male advantage, actually "opressed"?

Oppression involves exploitation and being used for service/labour. Women are oppressed because their labour and exploitation rewards men and a male benefitting society. Historically many groups have been exploited, subjugated and used for their provision of labour and services that benefitted a dominant class.

I know the dictionary is highly inconvenient to TRAs from start to finish, but no, in no real terms is this oppression. As usual, it's a whole lot of DARVO.

I've got a feeling we maybe hearing more from Martina in 2019

twitter.com/martina/status/1079815053405315073?s=21

Screen grab for anyone who can't do the link.

GO MARTINA🏅

I've just read this - it's quite long, but worth reading to the end. It's a reply to 'Andraya Yearwood knows she has the right to compete' published last month, and the author nails everything that's wrong with the argument in that article.

medium.com/@aniobrien/a-right-to-compete-a-gender-critical-response-62b759e2d1f5

Martina!

Under certain circumstances there's precedent that the bottom right photo could officially be a 'cat':

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-28966001