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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transman kicked out of gay sauna

210 replies

Badstyley · 31/10/2018 18:15

[ www.gaystarnews.com/article/trans-man-sauna/ ]

Seems a transman was asked to leave a male only sauna because he didn’t have a penis.

The sauna said they would have to approach the council to find out if their license would allow them to admit transmen.

Hope the clicky works. If it doesn’t I’ll post the link below.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
AGHHHH · 02/11/2018 18:30

@Electron1 Why are you talking me like this is a university lecture and I'm one of your students?

AGHHHH · 02/11/2018 18:30

to me*

Highheels1 · 02/11/2018 23:54

This peak-trans my gay friend earlier.

I told him about men in sports, he laughed(?)

I told him about men in female prions and he kept saying “golly gosh” (infuriating).

I told him about Pip Bunce and he sent me a meme of Caitlyn Jenner accepting her award. “Men do it better” (or similar)

I told him about vaginas wandering around the gay spa willy-nilly earlier and now this is very important and totally unacceptable.

Realising a trans man could be in the gloryhole at the gayspa made him physically react and was very shocked/disturbed at the thought. I pointed out his natural reaction would probably be deemed transphobic.

He then asked me to ring his local gayspa to masquerade as a trans man to ensure they say no to me (I haven’t done yet but might out of interest).

This gender/sex mix-up is so surreal. I am very grateful to those on these boards for my eyes being well and truly opened to the debate (and yes there definitely one to be had).

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 03/11/2018 01:35

If they had a spare one they’d be the centre of attention and they wouldn’t give that up for a anyone, let alone a stranger.

There is a man with two (functioning) penises and he is, apparently, quite popular. You can look him up, I won’t link to the articles because NSFW. So you’re quite right Aspie, and as always, spot on and funny.

Sorry. Derail. Smile

foxyliz26 · 03/11/2018 02:19

Its all about size probably from the gay men we have known , and have had a couple of friends who were at Greenham Common with us years ago who are now men

am sure if you look about on the internet you find many F2M,s with dangly toilet parts , we have a couple of friends who went from our world to being gay men
heres just one , who I am sure ,any of our gay male friends or straight female friends wouldn't say no to

but of course you are now going to say no way !

Transman kicked out of gay sauna
FadingMint · 03/11/2018 02:37

How realistic is that photo, though? We are well aware that Caitlyn Jenner had expensive photos taken, with make-up and costumes, to portray CJ as female; but still, lots of us looked and said, "Bloke"."

Are you representing that truthfully?

Aintnothingbutaheartache · 03/11/2018 02:54

My oh fucking my what are we doing to our kids?

AngryAttackKittens · 03/11/2018 05:51

Sorry, Liz, muscly isn't really my thing. You thought everyone attracted to men was into that? Figures, what with the correlation between trans activism and dull sexist stereotypes.

Destinysdaughter · 03/11/2018 06:38

Loved this comment from DataLounge:

“Vaginas don't belong in gay saunas any more than penises belong in lady's locker rooms.

I am sick to death of having to pretend to support this nonsense.

Biological sex is real. Sexual orientation is directly linked to bio sex and the genitals that come with it.

Most gay men had to spend a good chunk of their life justifying why we don't find female genitals sexually appealing. Same with lesbians and penises. And now we are being marginalised and being told our hard-fought sexual orientations are inherently bigoted.

I'm done. Call your "front hole" whatever you want. But gay men have a right not to be into what you have between your legs. And tell your MTF sisters the same about lesbians not wanting their "lady dicks."

You've squandered what support you could have had by transing kids and shaming the Ls and Gs.

Now fuck off.”

Destinysdaughter · 03/11/2018 06:40

Some very insightful people said a while ago that it’s only when this shit starts affecting men that they will start to speak out. Well it’s happening. And yes, it does seem to be a very homophobic movement, doesn’t it?

ChiaraRimini · 03/11/2018 06:47

How come the TRAs are going after Mumsnet and not the likes of Datalounge or KiwiFarms. Well I know why, it's because mumsnet are seen as women = should do as we are told by the menz. The TRAs don't dare try it on with the male based forums. Makes me so angry.

olderthanyouthink · 03/11/2018 06:48

@DancelikeEmmaGoldman do you mean a readit user with three Ds in his name? I thought he was found out the be fake, though I'm not sure how the photos were faked...?

FermatsTheorem · 03/11/2018 07:55

Like AAK I don't go for gym bunnies. But even if I did, it's impossible to tell from a photo how I'd react in RL. For starters, smell is immensely important to me -some otherwise personable and attractive men just smell wrong. Then there's not just the appearance of the neo-phallus (the photos I've seen don't look promising) but it's feel. I can't see, for instance, how any plastic surgery could reproduce that lovely, almost velvety feel and softness of the foreskin. Then there's the solidity of the male perineum.

I find it hard to believe a skilled plastic surgeon could reproduce all that. And my detailed description may make me sound like a genital fetishist - but really, if you're not massively interested in your sexual partner's genitals, I can't really see sex being very successful (unless you subscribe to the RM school of thought: sex is a success so long as your partner "copes" while you get a shag).

SnuggyBuggy · 03/11/2018 07:58

Thing is if you are androphilic you are always going to prefer a real man and they aren't exactly a rare commodity.

AGHHHH · 03/11/2018 09:52

@foxyliz26 A staged black and white photoshoot. Hmm Lol none of them actually look like that.

I would say no to this person because I have no interest in having sexual relations with a trans person. Surgery or not.

And believe it or not but gay men, like everyone else, have preferences and we don't say no because we're "all about size" what a stupid thing to say.

TrashyTerf · 03/11/2018 09:59

A lot of trans people look like they pass in airbrushed photographs... very very few pass in real life.

AGHHHH · 03/11/2018 10:08

@TrashyTerf Yeah. Even on dating apps with carefully angled photos I will always check their profile if I think they are and I'm always right. Female faces and bodies generally look different.

The only one who has ever been mostly convincing to me, is that Luke A from BB years ago.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/11/2018 10:24

Yeah, that too, Fermats. Photography is an artform, you can do amazing things with it. Attraction involves all 5 senses.

but really, if you're not massively interested in your sexual partner's genitals, I can't really see sex being very successful

TRAs really struggle to accept this, don't they? Genitals matter because we use them to shag with. When people act like they're irrelevant it's like asking what your mouth has to do with eating, what your feet have to do with running, etc.

FloralBunting · 03/11/2018 10:32

I think the weirdness around genitals is part of the religious aspect of Genderism. Adherents tend to see themselves as higher up the virtue scale, and as their religion has dualistic basis of spirit Vs matter, they feel extra virtue by claiming 'not to care' about genitals. Only the base, low virtue people care about physical things like that. Genderists see themselves as transcending this.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/11/2018 10:36

I don't want to transcend it, though. Not sure that they understand that - do they believe that we all wish we could be like them, or that we're basically a lower kind of lifeform because we rather enjoy being embodied beings?

R0wantrees · 03/11/2018 10:40

do they believe that we all wish we could be like them, or that we're basically a lower kind of lifeform because we rather enjoy being embodied beings?

I think for some there is indeed a belief that elevates trans people to a higher kind of lifeform.
Just as kink is elevated above 'vanilla'

FloralBunting · 03/11/2018 10:41

AAK, I think it's fairly clear that there is a sense of value judgement on those who don't agree with Genderist tenets. That's why dissenters get clobbered with the very worst insults - bigot, nazi etc. It's why there is the repeated refrain about dissent being 'on the wrong side of history'.

It's why people who have a very sense of their own sexual orientation are called 'genital fetishists'. It's meant to shame you into compliance or silence. This religion doesn't replicate through persuasion, it's a compelled faith - mostly through social threats.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/11/2018 10:41

I keep thinking of that thing from Futurama where they had the heads of former US presidents in jars. Apparently that's something to aspire to? Can't say I fancy it myself.

R0wantrees · 03/11/2018 10:48

There's an early expression of this 'higher being' belief described by Della Aleksander who Stephen Whittle has identified as being an early significant influence:

On previous thread, OP Sunkisses wrote:
"I did a search of Mumsnet and couldn't see any other posts about this extraordinary 1973 discussion show which was produced by transsexuals 45 years ago where they were given free-reign, free from editorial control. Four transsexuals are joined by a psychologist and an MP.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06c83f4/player

Where to start? Maybe with the show's producer and host, Della Aleksander, who is the most bizarre of all the participants. Della starts by claiming that a "chastened and wiser" Adolf Hitler and Queen Victoria have said, through a medium, that "there was a special role for me, in the reconstruction following a world wide collapse in 1978-79". Della also claims to have been sent from another world where the sexes don't exist and that transsexuals are the only model of a "higher race"! Della also claims to have founded the neo-Nazi sounding European National Movement in South Africa whilst serving in the Army there (I couldn't find any info on them, but they sound well dodgy to me).

Della also seems utterly confused, mis-using the terms 'bisexual' and 'intersex', and appearing to think these words mean transsexual, and that the appearance of nipples on a man means 'we are all transsexuals'. Della is, thankfully, corrected by the psychologist at 33.53 mins in who states that it is important to use the correct terminology, but Della wafts such trivialities away by saying "I don't want to get bogged down in medical questions". The MP, Leo Abse, argues against the 'trans umbrella' (before this term was invented by Stonewall etc) at 36 mins in.

There is clear evidence of autogynephilia (AGP - the sexual fetish of a man loving himself as a woman) at 33.23 when Della says the "sex act" is a "transsexual one", as "one attempts to become and absorb the beloved".

At 26 mins in one of the speakers, Rachel Bowen (the working class northern transsexual with dark hair), says that having a female birth certificate is a "status symbol". Another of the transsexuals, Laura Pralet, at 27 mins preposterously claims that "we are not a minority", and "I have never been a homosexual", even though Laura lives with and has married a man. Laura also says their husband is never happier when they are "in the kitchen", and at 31 mins in says they wanted to become a woman as "women have the best deal anyway".

It's absolutely fascinating and well worth a watch."

I would second that its worth watching

AngryAttackKittens · 03/11/2018 10:53

That program was really quite something, and a useful corrective for anyone who'd assumed that the politics of transsexualism was fine until fairly recently.