'Handmaidens'

[Dakinis]

I've seen this discussed before but what are thoughts on using the term 'handmaiden' to refer to non GC women?

Personally I'd like to see it join 'terf' on the banned list as I think it's equally as offensive but interested in the consensus.

Oh hi Dakinis.

No, I disagree.

Most posters here are opposed in principle to banned words I think.
Slurs are another matter, as are personal attacks.

Did you ever get around to correcting your assertion that sex offenders are NEVER placed in women's prisons?

You seem to be enjoying the feminist boards.

I think any hopes of the word 'handmaiden' disappearing from these boards are slim. What else would members use to describe a woman who disagrees with them?

Not interested in what you have to say, my love.

and watch out your petticoat desperation is showing with all the DARVO

I'm with Barracker on this one. No list of banned words on either side, just the possibility to dispute the way they are used in practice. Thus, for example, the T word used of GC women functions in exactly the same way as "witch", "bitch", "harpy" - it shuts down discussion by othering the person being talked about.

I will concede that "handmaiden" often works the same way, and is not a good word to choose if you're trying to "talk to the lurkers" (any more than "Remoaner" or "Gammon" are, on say, Brexit threads). So as a tactic in arguing it's not a useful one. Though sometimes, when one is feeling utterly frustrated at someone's arrant stupidity in being merrily prepared to throw women's rights under the bus, and, what's more, claiming to do so in the name of "feminism", it's hard not to lose one's temper and reach for a deliberately provocative name.

However, there is a crucial difference between the T word and handmaiden, which we need to remember. The former is used by members of the oppressing class to demonise members of the oppressed class and prevent their voices being heard, while the latter is used by members of the oppressed class to express anger at those of their peers prepared to take the side of the oppressors in doing the silencing. Very different power dynamic, IMO.

We had a long chat on this before and agreed to disagree. Not sure it's helpful to revisit. You can try the search function if you want to catch up.

I try to keep my own language neutral but policing the language of other women isn’t a good thing (for all of the reasons Fermats has clearly stated above).

I don’t think there should be a ‘banned list’, certainly not an even longer one.

I think in feminist discussion "handmaiden" used to have a very specific meaning. It was used to describe women who actively colluded with the oppression of other women-siding with the patriarchy for their own advantage. The problem is that it is now used more by anti feminists than by feminists-"you're going to call me a handmaiden" "femininists call anyone who disagrees with them a handmaiden" and so on that it's now completely useless. Women like that still exist though but they get incredibly angry if anyone suggests they might be.

Agree, the full term, I believe is ‘Handmaiden of the Patriarchy’

I thought this was amusing, it takes the piss out of both sides - happy to be the old lady ‘bigot’ while baby girls are still being murdered and rape is a weapon of war.

www.manfeels-park.com/comic/handmaiden-of-the-patriarchy/

Fermat - that's a really strong, powerful post. Thank you - it clarifies and words the argument for me in a way that I can use outwith the boards. Many, many thanks for that.

Using it in a generic context is fine but directing it at a specific poster as an insult isn't imo.

Using anything as a direct insult to another poster is problematic. Better to discuss the issues than name call.

We’re all only human though, so FFS moments do bubble up, and like I said before, policing other women’s language isn’t the answer.

Surely commander's wife would be more apt?

Whoosh goes the point as it flies overhead.

If you, OP, are of the opinion it is an insult then you must clarify further why you think it is an insult.

Should the book and series 'The Handmaid's Tale' be banned?

Aunt Lydia is more apt if we're going to reference the book. I don't think it just refers to the book. More like the Biblical and other ancient handmaidens the handmaidens of Gilead would have been based on.

To my mind a handmaiden actively works against the liberation of women to pander to men. That is the context I use it in, when I do.

I think there used to be an equivalent term “Uncle Tom”, for a black person who was an apologist for and colluded in white racism, derived from the novel ‘Uncle Tom’s cabin’.
Or “collaborator” from WW2.
We have always needed words for people who betray their own people.
If you don’t call feminist traitors “handmaidens”, how do you want to refer to them instead?

I see it as being similar to how black civil rights activists would call others Uncle Toms if they didn't support the fight against oppression.

Oops cross posted babdoc

I discount the opinion of anyone using it.

It is used far too often as a generic and specific insult and pulled out as some sort of "gotcha ! I've won" sucker punch. It is as irritating as those memes about "behold a man" "male tears"

Thus, for example, the T word used of GC women functions in exactly the same way as "witch", "bitch", "harpy" - it shuts down discussion by othering the person being talked about

I don't use any of those words or "handmaiden" either on here or in real life.

Should the book and series 'The Handmaid's Tale' be banned?

That is false analogy.

'Quisling' is another one. All are very different from TERF.

Ah I wrote a long thing about this last time. My interpretation of a handmaiden was always that they worked to prop up the patriarchy but in a context in which they had little agency or freedom. So mother's who bound their children's feet, those victorians who tried to embody the whole angel of the hearth thing. They took the easy route and their society rewards them for it with safety and privileges etc but they live in a gilded cage and don't have the tools to dismantle it.

The way it's use now is usually closer to the a commanders wife or an aunt Lydia in my opinion.

It seems especially strange for one feminist to direct it to another. It reminds me of TRAs calling other trans folk truscum.

The term in feminist discourse predates the (excellent) Atwood novel.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3285240-Handmaidens

Here’s the last discussion on the topic.