'Handmaidens'

[Dakinis]

I've seen this discussed before but what are thoughts on using the term 'handmaiden' to refer to non GC women?

Personally I'd like to see it join 'terf' on the banned list as I think it's equally as offensive but interested in the consensus.

I object! This is a clear example of victim blaming.

Eh?

"I consider 'punch a terf' and 'you're a pathetic handmaiden' to be on an equal par."

Well you've really just shown your (misogynistic) hand there. Incitement to a criminal level of violence, v being told you're a pathetic traitor. You are clearly a total misogynist. Who refuses to condemn incitement to violence against women. Shameful.

Handmaiden doesn't just relate to TWAW it relates to 'sex work is empowering', 'feminism has gone too far and men suffer more now', etc.

Basically any woman who devotes her time to upholding a status quo which advantages males to the detriment of all women is a handmaiden of the Patriarchy.

Perhaps "utter fucking mug" might be a way of saying the same thing that is more preferable for the op?

It's directing it towards fellow feminists that is insulting. Suggesting women who do not share the same opinion must somehow be under the thumb of men.

Because a woman couldn't possibly form an opinion all by herself without males having something to do with it.

It's not suggesting that you haven't formed the opinion by yourself. It's that the consequences of your opinion will result in other women being fucked over. Which is a pretty shitty thing, especially for a feminist.

It's about women actively pandering to men and collaborating with them to destroy women's rights. Turkeys and Christmas. Or internalised misogyny and a failure to grasp the importance of sex based protections. You don't agree. That's fine. Not bothered.

It's directing it towards fellow feminists that is insulting. Suggesting women who do not share the same opinion must somehow be under the thumb of men.

You can't be a feminist if you cannot define 'woman'. Don't be silly.
It is like saying 'ah, I'm a Mathematician', without a concept of what numbers are.

Talking of Handmaidens

twitter.com/jessicavalenti/status/1042931440755781633?s=21

FloralBunting no feminist has any intention of fucking women over. People form their own opinions based on their world view.

Personally I think anyone who voted for Brexit has royally fucked us over but I don't go around calling them David Cameron's pathetic handmaidens.

Okay responses have surprised me, I thought Terf was a slur. I didn't realise the majority were cool with it.

Christ on bike. TERF is a slur. Handmaiden is also often a slur.

NOBODY ON HERE THINKS EITHER SHOULD BE BANNED.

You’re creating a set of false equivalencies:

The posters who are happy to use it... would you be happy for a teenage girl walking down the street with a transgender friend to be called a handmaiden?

Why on earth would having a transgender friend make someone a ‘handmaiden.’?

By creating this scenario you imply that anyone who has used this word would never be friends with anyone trans and is somehow hostile to anyone trans. Yet that’s NOT the stance of anyone on here.

We keep seeing this used as a conversation starter - a statement that requires rebuffing, and by rebuffing it the argument is derailed from the real point and people expend energy denying the accusation.

Nobody on here has an issue with the average trans person. We have an issue with ideological issues that threaten to remove our rights and child safeguarding.

I’m a staunch critic of most of the major world religions in terms of ideology.
I also know many really decent religious people of all ofbthose religions.
I wouldn’t discimonate against them, and they have as much right to believe as I have to disbelieve

You’re conflating criticism of an ideology with criticism of a person holding it and that’s a false equivalence.

It would be like my evangelical Christian friend telling me that I’m like, literally erasing her because I’m an atheist.

Dakinis, and yet you insisted that no male sex offender would be put in prison with women and have yet to show you give a shit that you've been shown to be wrong.

So yeah, I'm thinking that I'll take your assertion that you have no intention of fucking women over with a pinch of salt.

And no, neither should be banned.

No one on here lobbied for any words or phrases or topics to be banned. We’re grown ups who can talk about a controversial topic, have a jolly good ding dong about it and then agree to disagree without flouncing, crying, reporting people for WrongThink... or threatening legal action...

'no feminist has any intention of fucking women over. People form their own opinions based on their world view.'

That may well be true, but people who can't define the term 'woman' cannot be feminists, no matter whether they identify as feminists or not.

Women on FWR didn't ask for terms to be banned. There are terms we refute strongly and find offensive but we debate and offer reasons as to why.

MNHQ decided to ban them presumably to 'balance' their rules.

You’re conflating criticism of an ideology with criticism of a person holding it and that’s a false equivalence

No that is exactly what GC women are doing calling liberal feminists handmaidens. Attacking the person not the opinion.

Personally I think anyone who voted for Brexit has royally fucked us over but I don't go around calling them David Cameron's pathetic handmaidens.

Plenty of people would! And surely they're not Cameron's handmaidens but those of Farage, Boris etc?

We're just going round and round and round in circles.

It's like OP cannot conceive of any other environment than absolute authoritarianism.

Wrongthink and vocabulary associated with it must be banned. The argument is about which version of wrongthink should win.

It's like some dystopian tankie resurgence.

"It's directing it towards fellow feminists that is insulting. Suggesting women who do not share the same opinion must somehow be under the thumb of men."
You seem to be suggesting that people think that women are either feminists or handmaidens. There are plenty of non feminists that are not even remotely handmaidenish. The aforementioned Lass is a prime example.

What a pointless thread. OP isn't being genuine here so there's no point talking to them is there?

No that is exactly what GC women are doing calling liberal feminists handmaidens. Attacking the person not the opinion.

No that’s what YOU are doing with your assertion that we would all be abusing someone walking down he street with someone trans. Of course none of us would do that.
I wouldn’t shout abuse at people attending church. I reserve my right to be highly critical about Christianity and any other religion as long as I’m not singling out an individual.

There are male rapists in women’s jails. Have you had a read of that yet? May I ask your opinion on it? Is it OK?

No that is exactly what GC women are doing calling liberal feminists handmaidens. Attacking the person not the opinion.

In a discourse on, say, a feminist board, you discuss opinions and it can't be off limits to point out that some opinion marks you out as a handmaiden. That is very different from people arbitrarily shouting handmaiden at you while you go along a street or go shopping or whatever, outside a discussion forum / meeting on the matter.

OP: here's the thing - denunciation societies are bad for everyone. FWR feminists have argued against censorious rules on this forum consistently.

If you want to argue the toss over which words should be subject to banning and which words should not - find a group of people who think words should be banned and have at it.

This is not that group.

Dakinis
You do know Cameron led the Remain campaign right?