'Handmaidens'

[Dakinis]

I've seen this discussed before but what are thoughts on using the term 'handmaiden' to refer to non GC women?

Personally I'd like to see it join 'terf' on the banned list as I think it's equally as offensive but interested in the consensus.

Only if they actively work against women's sex based rights or any other women's rights.

dismissed as a pathetic handmaiden

has someone hurt your feelings dakinis?

Datun I think truscum is the word TRAs use when insulting their own.

I see it as being similar to how black civil rights activists would call others Uncle Toms if they didn't support the fight against oppression

Do you think "Uncle Tom" or the other "black on the outside ,white on the inside" slurs are acceptable?

feminists who accept TWAW

they are colluding with the patriarchy against their own sex

Dakinis

Not really. They disagree that truscum are their own. Hence the scum.

But I take your point.

I was talking about men who are not tran who disagree. They are generally called disappointing, rather than terf.

Datun would you consider non GC feminist women your own or would you consider them the enemy?

Porch Muslim, Uncke Tom and Handmaiden are not words for people who disagree or who have differing views. They are words to describe Muslims, black people and women who actively colllude in discrimination against and/or oppression of other muslims, black people or women for their own personal gain

They are all dreadful. If one's argument against the position of another person has to rely on hackneyed sound bites it probably wasn't very sound in the first place.

would you consider non GC feminist women your own

my own what?

they're women if that's what you mean

they're autonomous individuals who are entitled to hold their own opions

errmmm. that's all I've got

they're autonomous individuals who are entitled to hold their own opions

Thank you! And therefore not handmaidens.

take lass here. we agree soundly on the subject of prostitution and disagree roundly on the subject of transgenderism

and that's ok

i'm unlikely to call her a handmaiden, mostly because it's not the sort if thing i do, but also i wouldn't dare

ermm, not what I said dakinis

i'm not a big one for name calling

but do I consider perfectly sensible women who say TWAW to be working against the interests of their own sex, probably in the misguided belief that they';ll be alright jack?

yep

which is kind of what 'handmaiden' is short for

they're autonomous individuals who are entitled to hold their own opions
Thank you! And therefore not handmaidens.

No, Dakinis, that is a logical fallacy. That they are entitled to their own opinions does not necessarily mean they do not defer their judgement to males, which would make them handmaidens, obviously.

Pathetic handmaiden

Are there degrees of handmaideness?

Slutty handmaiden, jolly handmaiden, sad handmaiden, energetic handmaiden, compliant handmaiden, reluctant handmaiden, etc.

Dakinis
In answer to your question up thread, I’m neither. Why do you ask?
I’m not in favour of any proscribed language. I don’t like the T word much but I’m not going to crumble into dust if someone calls me it. In fact I’ve been called it many times and I’m still here.

BR I do think you're on shaky ground there. If Nawaz is called a 'Porch Muslim' by hardcore Islamists and you agree with the use of the phrase, you've managed to both accept that they are the sole voice of Legitimate Islam and put yourself on the side of some very unsavoury types.

Dragging myself back from that tangent, I'm more in agreement with Fermat's take on things.

Believing that other women are free to hold their own opinions doesn't mean I have to respect those opinions at all. That's not how discourse works. We don't all state our opinions in a circle, nod and smile at each other and share some cake.

But generally on here handmaiden is used as an insult to feminists who accept TWAW.

Frankly, I would call people who accept that TWAW incapable of logical thought and the basic understanding of how language and definitions work, and just nonsensically repeat whatever they're told to. Like the sheep in Animal Farm. (Four legs good, two legs baaaad...)

Maybe sheeple would be a better term than handmaiden?

placemats you're making it grow on me. If you have to call me a handmaiden I would appreciate it if you specified I'm a jolly, slutty handmaiden.

"But generally on here handmaiden is used as an insult to feminists who accept TWAW."
Well, actually, I think women who say TWAW are actively colluding in the oppression of women for their own personal gain, so it's an accurate use of the term!

BertrandRussell But is it always for their personal gain? Or is it just deference to power by default? Or does being in the good graces of power and not vilified as TERF/witch count as personal gain for you?

Sheeple is a good term for people who mindlessly follow the latest "woke" slogan (or the latest "far right" slogan - I'm an equal-ops applier of the term sheeple to folk who take adopt political views as a package deal to fit in with those around them).

But handmaiden applies to women who knowingly adopt views to the detriment of other women. The sort who, when someone discusses sexual violence as a phenomenon with a clear difference in prevalence of offender between the two sexes, says "but women do it too" as if the 98%/2% split did not matter, then (and this is the crucial bit) then uses that to argue that therefore sex segregated spaces don't matter. That's the point at which she's done something that borders on traitorous - by deliberately manipulating/distorting facts in order to push a political position which will place other women at risk.

Dakinis I don't who you are. I don't know what other posts you have done. I care not less.

It's just you are now moving the goalposts.

That's the point at which she's done something that borders on traitorous - by deliberately manipulating/distorting facts in order to push a political position which will place other women at risk.

Good point.