'Handmaidens'

[Dakinis]

I've seen this discussed before but what are thoughts on using the term 'handmaiden' to refer to non GC women?

Personally I'd like to see it join 'terf' on the banned list as I think it's equally as offensive but interested in the consensus.

WE DIDN'T ASK FOR ANY TERMS TO BE CENSORED ON FWR.

The censorship and banning of words did not come from the women on these boards.

It's incredibly useful to allow people full rein of their personal favourites.

Watching educated women dispute the definition of the word cis is a joy to behold. I'd far rather that, than it be banned.

Likewise the term handmaiden. I'd far rather it was justified, or not, as the case may be.

Transactivists, on the other hand want to make language taboo. So you cannot question or challenge.

They have to. Because their argument is worthless.

Like your Ian Huntley argument Dakinis. He would not be barred from getting a gender recognition certificate, on the basis that he has murdered children. A gender recognition certificate will give him automatic access to be treated as a woman. That's the policy.

No amount of you find it shocking will change that fact.

As I said, the only thing that would stop him actually being transferred to a female prison is the lack of a sufficiently secure unit. Because they don't exist in the female estate. But if they did, that's where he would go. Under the current policy.

The current policy is what feminists are challenging.

Your opinion that prisons wouldn't invoke the policy is rubbish. They are already invoking it for paedophiles and rapists. Then inviting them to the House of Commons to enlighten MPs about their experience.

So yes let's have an amnesty on all banned words.

Because I want your arguments out there. For everyone to see.

I know that Maajid Nawaz has been referred to as a 'Porch Muslim' for having the effrontery to suggest that there may be a problem or two in the Muslim community. Likewise, black people whose views go against the grain are dismissed as 'Uncle Toms'. So there's a risk of denying the opinion of the individual and saying that if you're a member of the community then please see below for a list of acceptable beliefs.

As to whether 'Handmaiden' is a directly comparable insult of choice for those who go against the feminist grain (and not just over Trans issues) I simply don't know as:

a - I don't know enough about the background of this particular term and its usage.
b - from the posts it would appear that the OP has an axe to grind.

As Lang has so eloquently said, GC posters aren't about the banning of terms, that was the other guys.

I don't use handmaiden very much, but I certainly have used it when especially angry with some women fucking over other women.

I'm sure it's not nice to have someone suggest the someone is one, but tbh there's really no nice way to describe a despicable, selfish individual who will piss all over other women in distress.

Now you're clutching at straws (and in a very unconvincing way).

Both terms are used in both ways - cf "Glinner has outed himself as a TERF" tweets and "handmaidens like ABC make me sick" versus "TERFs should all DIAF" and "there's lots of handmaidens out there prepared to throw other women under the bus - and they're usually the women who are white, middle classed and privileged, who think they'll never be in a women's prison or homeless or DV shelter."

The real asymmetry, as I said upthread, is that "TERF" is used by the people with the power (men) to shut up the people with less/no power (women) whereas "handmaiden" is used by the people with less/no power to express that particular brand of fury which comes from watching one of your own sell out to the oppressor.

Okay responses have surprised me, I thought Terf was a slur. I didn't realise the majority were cool with it.

The real asymmetry, as I said upthread, is that "TERF" is used by the people with the power (men) to shut up the people with less/no power (women) whereas "handmaiden" is used by the people with less/no power to express that particular brand of fury which comes from watching one of your own sell out to the oppressor.

Exactly. Terrf is used to dominate, handmaiden is used to dismiss.

But you won't understand that, OP, because you think advocating punching someone is the same as calling them pathetic.

The handmaiden accusations are personal to a single poster.

The term you mention is routinely applied to individual women. Often with words like "die" "choke" "scum".

Terf is a slur, as everyone has just pointed out. No one is cool with it.

We are cool with letting people see that transactivists are happy to slur women.

jeez louise danikins

terf is a slur

keep up

we're just big enough to be able to deal with other people having free speech

Terrf is used to dominate, handmaiden is used to dismiss.

Not in the context of this board. I have not seen a single post where terf has been used to dominate. I've seen plenty where handmaiden is used to dismiss.

LangCleg

Almost as if...

I think there is confusion since A Handmaid's Tale was televised.

People don't realise that a 'handmaiden of the Patriarchy' is not the same as a 'handmaid' in Atwood's book. The former is a willing colluder and traitor, the latter is an unwilling slave.

I'm sure this is why you get clueless people periodically coming on FWR to complain about it. Fuckwits.

The handmaiden accusations are personal to a single poster.

So use of the plural, handmaidens, is all right then?

But you won't understand that, OP, because you think advocating punching someone is the same as calling them pathetic.

Since an actual punching took place went to court and was convicted, following writing it down as a threat, it is a long, long way away from calling anyone pathetic.

Not in the context of this board. I have not seen a single post where terf has been used to dominate. I've seen plenty where handmaiden is used to dismiss.

Because the word is banned.

And the sort of people who use it end up getting banned because they can't stop trolling, manipulating, goading or just being playing obnoxious.

So there's a risk of denying the opinion of the individual and saying that if you're a member of the community then please see below for a list of acceptable beliefs.

Yes. Which is I think more or less what I said upthread when I said if your aim was to talk to the lurkers, "handmaiden" would not be a useful term to use (any more than Remoaner/Gammon on a Brexit thread).

The former is a willing colluder and traitor, the latter is an unwilling slave.

I object! This is a clear example of victim blaming.

You fail to understand the complexities of what is being said in the book or the television series.

TERF is a slur, (it's frequently accompanied with threats) and it's plain incorrect.
Insisting on using it against others is like calling left wing voters Tories after they've shown you their voting slips.
Its designed to evoke a response and it is demonstrably untrue.

It's used at women who aren't radical feminist (RF)
It's used at women who include female trans people (trans exclusionary? TE)

It just is a complete misnomer. It doesn't work on any level, except for being an insult like bitch or witch or hag.

Exactly Datun. So there is no longer a slur word available to people who want to fling a bit of shit at a GC poster. But anyone who does not conform to the rad fem status quo is dismissed as a pathetic handmaiden.

It's handy though

when someone says they wish they could use it, it tells you pretty much all you need to know about that person

terf I mean, not handmaiden

Porch Muslim, Uncke Tom and Handmaiden are not words for people who disagree or who have differing views. They are words to describe Muslims, black people and women who actively colllude in discrimination against and/or oppression of other muslims, black people or women for their own personal gain.

It just is a complete misnomer. It doesn't work on any level, except for being an insult like bitch or witch or hag.

Exactly. It largely means women who disagree with me. Occasionally it means men who disagree with me, but the witch, bitch flavour is actually demonstrated by the fact it directed towards women almost all the time.

In fact most of the time when men disagree with transactivists they are 'disappointing'. Not terfs.

BertrandRussell yes agreed if used correctly. But generally on here handmaiden is used as an insult to feminists who accept TWAW.

Which interestingly means that TRAs would benefit from the equivalent of the world handmaiden to aim at men who disagree with them.

Thereby proving that they know they are all men.