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(214 Posts)
Terfulike Thu 21-Jun-18 23:22:02

I seem to be coming across these people more and more in the last week or so. Admittedly the video I describe below is 8 months old.

However, there are definitely more numerous postings/videos from young females (of the traditional type) who are trying to educate us GC Radfems about being too exclusionary, if you catch my drift, as such types as us may be physically threatening... no examples given.

My reason for posting is that one just got my goat quite big time (clip clip clopping across the bridge of reason).

This young person of the type traditionally (although admittedly not currently) referred to as female, or even young woman, (though obviously not these days - I acknowledge that these are considered by most Britons to be archaic terms - please forgive my usage mn) was describing people of the type who post on this particular site who are a bit exclusionary wink wink catch my drift with great disdain.

Anyway said person said that the word "lesbian" is basically an "uncomfortable" word with "***exclusionary connotations" and is "just wierd". Hmmmmm what did someone say about erasure?

Moreover GC Radfems are said by said vlogerette to be in positions of great power and influence these days ready to turn the heads of gullible young feminists in completely inappropriate directions.

Further, said person claims any discussions of paralegal philandering (quick crossword clue) are utterly ridiculous!

This highly commended video ends with scoffing at ideas of the f**** body being at all relevant to feminism.

Apologies if this has been discused before.

DJLippy Thu 21-Jun-18 23:25:14

Do you have a link for the video OP?

Alaaya Thu 21-Jun-18 23:26:19

I must say, I hate the word 'handmaiden'. It is so fucking misogynistic - like some poor little girl can't possibly have thought things through and come to a different conclusion - she must have been brainwashed by some man. It really bothers me.

TuesdayTogether Thu 21-Jun-18 23:28:29

The two I came across were of the vulnerable type and despite university education, not the most intelligent of people in certain ways. They are the type to be taken advantage of in many situations.

Terfulike Thu 21-Jun-18 23:28:52


BertrandRussell Thu 21-Jun-18 23:28:54

Handmaiden is not supposed to be a compliment, Alaaya!

MillyTheKid Thu 21-Jun-18 23:36:59

I must say, I hate the word 'handmaiden'. It is so fucking misogynistic - like some poor little girl can't possibly have thought things through and come to a different conclusion - she must have been brainwashed by some man. It really bothers me.

I agree. It seems to be the go to insult used to describe a woman who doesn't agree with certain feminist opinions.

Terfulike Thu 21-Jun-18 23:38:36

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Terfulike Thu 21-Jun-18 23:40:20

My phone did predicted text there.
I meant to say "I may have been transed"

Terfulike Thu 21-Jun-18 23:41:35

Anyway has anyone watched it ?

FloralBunting Thu 21-Jun-18 23:42:35

I think the use of handmaiden as a pejorative in this instance is more about how willing certain women are to cede their rights and rights of others to receive approval from a particular group of people than it is about an honest difference of opinion.
I think pejoratives have limited usefulness, but when someone is determined to fuck over their natural allies to gain a social/cultural advantage, it's not going to elicit cooing, soothing noises of approval.

Alaaya Thu 21-Jun-18 23:42:37

BertrandRussell - I know it's not. But I tend to think that misogyny isn't OK, even if you don't agree with someone.

DJLippy Thu 21-Jun-18 23:43:42

Musing today and I thought the generational divide in feminism is often framed in certain terms.

Older feminists (or what is framed as older feminism) cast their younger liberal sisters as handmaidens - which to me conjurers images of a Harpie - the classic Other woman/mistress type. Definitely younger anyway. Think of the 'cool-girl' cookie references.

Meanwhile Liberal feminism casts the older feminists (whether or not they are actually older) - as the archetypal mother figure - ranging from un-cool sensible shooed mom - to the evil, wicked stepmother.

Why is this happening...It's very interesting...

BertrandRussell Thu 21-Jun-18 23:44:06

"I agree. It seems to be the go to insult used to describe a woman who doesn't agree with certain feminist opinions."
I honestly don't think it's that. A "handmaiden" is a woman who shows very specific behaviours- who colludes with men/misogyny/the patriarchy for her own advantage. I wouldn't call the woman in the video (didn't catch her name-fab green hair) a handmaiden.

GreatWetlands Thu 21-Jun-18 23:45:42

Many younger woman are keeping quiet.wink

Terfulike Thu 21-Jun-18 23:47:53

As many have said before, they haven't had time to process things. And motherhood and/or marraige/long-term partnerships and/or careers tend not to happen till you are older. These experiences are particularly revealing.

BertrandRussell Thu 21-Jun-18 23:51:12

She was also clearly of the "lesbian is another word for transphobe" tendency, wasn't she?

HappyStripper Thu 21-Jun-18 23:52:38

I think honestly your “interpretation” is ridiculous. It seems you’re having more fun bashing the girl and dismissing any of her arguments as just coming from men rather than discussing it seriously. From the video she appears to be a very smart woman and her argument is perfectly valid and supported even if you don’t agree with it.

FloralBunting Thu 21-Jun-18 23:57:01

Watched it. I particularly enjoyed the dismissal of the body centred feminism as belonging entirely to second wave feminism, as though biology no longer has any impact on inequality.
And the delightful carping about the fact that those women who have been at the forefront of feminist thought are now looked up to and admired and shock listened to, as though they have authority.
So yes, essentially, this is indeed a marvellous example of a woman who is entirely divorced from any notion of the need for feminism in the real world, so invested in navel-gazing academia that she finds the very word 'lesbian' icky and exclusionary.

And oh, the 'resources' in the description thrilled my eager-to-swallow-self-serving-bullshit heart; variously Riley, Stef and Paris. Give me strength.

Alaaya Thu 21-Jun-18 23:58:36

DJLippy - you're absolutely right - "handmaiden" as a phrase is tied to "cool girl" as a phrase too and that also drives me mad for its complete negation of female agency. There's a kind of "silly deluded little girl" undercurrent in both phrases which I feel ties into some shitty patriarchal stereotypes about both young women being sexually pliant and brainless and older women being jealous harpies and women being their own worse enemies all around.

BertrandRussell Fri 22-Jun-18 00:00:25

The complete glossing over of any aggressive language directed at "terms" was a bit of an eye opener too...

DJLippy Fri 22-Jun-18 00:02:01


You must concede that the way that 3rd wave feminists frame their radfem counterparts also plays into mother archetypes.

I am not making a judgement here I just think that a psycho analyst could make a lot out of this. Is there a female Odepus complex?

BettyDuMonde Fri 22-Jun-18 00:02:20

This video is way, way worse.

Hilariously, she starts off with what is presumably a paid for sponsorship spiel for a menstrual cycle tracking app and then goes on to explain how 'biological sex' is just a made up thing designed to invalidate another person's gender.

The irony is startling.

Prawnofthepatriarchy Fri 22-Jun-18 00:02:29

I am not entirely comfortable with the term handmaiden but it is apposite for the sort of young woman whose ostentatious "feminism" revolves around men - porn and sex work as positive feminist choices, etc. They don't want to scare men off but I'd guess maybe they think if they're special cool woke girls they can identify out of the effects of sexism.

They pop up on YouTube and elsewhere, talking about feminism that's "intersectional" enough to theoretically contain my gekko. He's Squishy. Though I don't know his gender identity to be fair. May be misgendering his dear little self.

Anyway, the ones I've seen on YouTube have this weird submissive presentation with extra high voices. It's a fashion. But it does come over very handmaiden-y.

BettyDuMonde Fri 22-Jun-18 00:03:23

And if we are their spiritual mums we really need to start giving them remedial sex ed lessons.

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