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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

A woman is an adult female human

999 replies

Pratchet · 03/07/2018 10:18

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

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EmpressOfSpartacus · 04/07/2018 06:08

Morning, Pratchet. Brew

MrsRRR · 04/07/2018 06:24

Sent (another!) e mail to my MP.

I feel utterly powerless to stop this madness.

Pratchet · 04/07/2018 06:25

Morning. Had a pint of tea. Today is my admin day of reading Bowl's thread and sending my letters. I've cleared the decks.

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MrsRRR · 04/07/2018 06:28

I was deleted last night for pointing out the XY behaviours of TRAs....

pigsknickers · 04/07/2018 06:32

I haven't got time to finish the thread before I go out, but just want to quickly de-lurk and add my voice - women are adult human females, nothing else. I'm hugely grateful to the wonderful articulate women who give their time and energy to these threads. It's through reading about these issues, and the passion and anger of the women on here, that my appreciation of what a wonder it is to have a female body is growing daily. Thank you xx

NewbieSpartacus · 04/07/2018 06:32

I'm from Manchester. No gondolas for me, just 3 rusty cans and a shopping trolley with a dodgy wheel. Wailing Wonderwall.

Pratchet · 04/07/2018 06:36

Interesting mrsR. I did think 'well, Stephen Whittle' but to be honest all but one of the prominent campaigners I can think of are XY, the violence has been XY, the loudest critics like OJ and Harrop are XY, and I could also mention many of our gaslighting MN co-posters. The government has made it ALL about the XY: 'trans'women are women' we are told - no mention of the XX. So really, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

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lilPeeky · 04/07/2018 06:37

I came here to Mumsnet years ago to lurk and for stepparenting advice. Kid grows up and I have less and less need for the site, but I thought of it with fondness because like a good friend, the women here told me what I needed to hear, which was not always what I wanted to hear. This site enabled (deliberate past tense) women’s conversations about the things that matter to us. Then menopause hit and I popped back to the same supportive intelligent women to seek advice.

While I was here I browsed to see what else was concerning the female sex. And I found I’m witnessing (with increasing anger, genuine distress, & frustration on my part) the pervasive indoctrination, of sexist misogynistic claptrap from a minority of men being placed over and above the needs of the women in whose name the site exists. Worse it’s being propagated by the board itself.

Seriously, women stating their deeply held beliefs and their understanding of the world is wrong? Women stating biological facts are wrong? Women meeting together to state and restate those shared views is wrong? Women are just plain wrong for stating scientific facts? Scientific facts are now branded abusive of men? Women must lie about facts? Women must be silent about their truth? Women must appease men? What is this shit!

I’m going to be blunt. The actions of the TRAs feels abusive. I’m a woman who can recognise abuse, it was inflicted on me by someone I trusted for many years. It still hurts. Someone you think is acting in your best interest twists and bends reality until you struggle to recognise it from a mental fiction created around. TRA (not incidentally most transsexuals I’ve met) create a delusionary fiction about their own being. They demand we all share in it. They tell us that if we don’t accept their new reality we are being abusive. Women (the genuine authentic biological kind) are struggling and some are fighting back against the delusion. TRA are losing control of their false narrative and fighting back. Women are upset because we are being attacked. The more those attacks occur the more often women are saying ‘we are being abused’. I look at this thread and see women saying this attempt to gaslight us into disbelieving biology has failed, we state again our truth.

The actions of the moderators on this thread also feels psychologically abusive. It feels like a demand to submit to more abuse. ‘Yes we know that you are upset about it, but please be quiet and accept it. You mustn’t talk about it. You mustn’t make daddy angry. You must placate him so he won’t hit you again. 🤫 .’

I didn’t come here to have my mind messed with. I came to find like minded women. To understand, to see my views explored and validated or indeed changed.

Nothing here or anywhere else has changed my opinions. I believe that trans women are biological males.

I am an adult human female.
I am a female mammal.
I am a woman
A woman is a female mammal.
A woman is a human female.
A male can never be a female mammal
A male can never be an adult human female.

And if to state that is ‘wrong’ then I am glad to be wrong, and restate it over and over again, trans women are male, because all of this increasingly feels like an exercise in national gaslighting of the female sex (that’s women defined as a distrinct mammalian biological entity). I prefer my mind to remain in an un-fucked with unabused state thank you very much.

Can someone please PM me the contact details for ‘the other place’ please. I come here because women are here, if women are elsewhere I would happily go their instead, I come for the company, not the site, but I don’t want to be here anymore.

MrsRRR · 04/07/2018 06:40

Bird 💐

MrsRRR · 04/07/2018 06:48

I'd love a pm to the other place but I doubt if get accepted.

Understandably so in light of what's happened...

BarbieBrightSide · 04/07/2018 06:50

I have lurked on and learnt a lot from these threads over time and for that I thank you all. I need to catch up on what's been posted since I went to bed last night but I have to say MrsRRR I have said similar in RL re XY behaviour of some transwomen.

Without naming names, there is a transwoman that appears in the media from time to time and who does pass as female superficially. But when you see or hear this person in a 'debate' with a woman with an opposing view the behaviour that comes out is not becoming of a woman - talking over the top of the speaker with the opposing view, jabbing fingers, aggressive posturing. And the repeating of TWAW as if saying it often enough makes it true.

So I am with you when you state that a woman is an adult human female, a man is an adult human male. A transwoman is a transwoman, a transman is a transman. It is not possible to change the chromosomes that you were born with and become the opposite sex however much you want that to be so.

user838383 · 04/07/2018 06:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LaSqrrl · 04/07/2018 06:51

I cannot for the life of me work out why female biology/reality is considered goady/inflammatory/weaponised on a site for parents (where surely, everyone knows how babies are made?)

The last time I heard 'sex as a weapon' was from MRAs.

Congrats MNHQ, you now sound exactly like MRAs.

ToeToToe · 04/07/2018 06:52

"And I found I’m witnessing (with increasing anger, genuine distress, & frustration on my part) the pervasive indoctrination, of sexist misogynistic claptrap from a minority of men being placed over and above the needs of the women in whose name the site exists. Worse it’s being propagated by the board itself."

Couldn't agree more. In the politest possible way, MNHQ - and engaging in PARD (anyone else remember PARD - polite and reasonable discourse) - HQ, you have lost the plot here. You are genuinely working against women here and supporting a male-rights movement.

We tried WTGLWGH. You've tried new moderation guidelines. I don't know if you've noticed, but they're still coming after you. They're still attacking you and your advertisers - that's because they won't stop until Mumsnet is shut down - because Mumsnet is a place where women talk. About themselves, about their lives, about their biology, about women's issues.

Pratchet · 04/07/2018 06:54

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3296332-welsh-women-s-aid-gra-statement?msgid=79151156#79151156 can I link to this thread where the need of women for XX only refuges is starkly laid out. (Also goadiness, warning)

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MrsRRR · 04/07/2018 06:58

Just seen reds post

YES

LaSqrrl · 04/07/2018 07:00

I don't know if you've noticed, but they're still coming after you. They're still attacking you and your advertisers - that's because they won't stop until Mumsnet is shut down - because Mumsnet is a place where women talk.

So very true, Toe. I have seen it happen on other feminist sites - either a complete takeover (with trans policing moderation) or it is killed off by driving off female commentators, or basically, a bit of both. I have seen far too many feminist forums get killed off in my time, far too many.

TransplantsArePlants · 04/07/2018 07:00

It's extraordinary what level of uncivil debate passes elsewhere on this site. Everywhere other than FWR.

Unless you truly think that what we are assembling to say on here is transphobic, MNHQ, then you have no excuse for those messages yesterday.

MrPan · 04/07/2018 07:00

Still looking fwd to Penny M being asked to explain what she means by transwomen are women.
Not unlike the shit show around what Brexit is exactly.

And fuck me Kate. Read your opening salvos about too many women gathering and saying similar things being inflammatory.
The trans activist bullies will not stop or be appeased. We ALL know bullies only stop when they are stood up to.

MrPan · 04/07/2018 07:01

Oh and transwomen are NOT NOT NOT women. Hope that's clear.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 04/07/2018 07:03

I'm in hospital on a ward with 5 other women. As one of them said, as she hobbled to the loo, "Excuse my arse." I was thinking about how difficult, how uncomfortable it would be sharing with males, regardless of how they might identify.

MrsRRR · 04/07/2018 07:03

This could be the beginning of the end for mn

Or "personsnet" as I assume we must now call it?

Pratchet · 04/07/2018 07:05

Prawn Gin

What distinguished MN at the beginning and made it such a money spinner was the educated arsiness of the board. Otherwise it would have been netmums.

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LumpySpacedPrincess · 04/07/2018 07:06

This may not make any sense but it really resonated with me last night. I was listening to Lords and Ladies by Terry Pratchett, needed to turn my head off for a bit.

There is a part where the meaning of words is lost over time,

"The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning."

HogarthlovesSmurfs · 04/07/2018 07:27

*This could be the beginning of the end for mn

Or "personsnet" as I assume we must now call it?*

MN = mansnet

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