A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

TWAW and I Can't Believe It's Not Butter.

Honest, guv.

Just before this thread hits its 1,000 (and I have missed the 700-odd comments since last I checked).

For the record, I am a female. When I was a child, I was a girl (and treated differently to boys because of it). When I reached adulthood, I became a woman (woman being adult human female). And treated differently to men because of it.

Biology matters, because we are born into a sex-caste system.

If I thought I could successfully 'identify' my way out of it, I would have 'transmanned' years ago. Having said that, the sex-caste system still presents itself within trans activism very clearly, with 'trans men' (the born-female) still the second class citizens within the trans world. Funny that, huh?

LaSqrrl this point is interesting

sex-caste system still presents itself within trans activism very clearly, with 'trans men' (the born-female) still the second class citizens within the trans world.

As I have found it to be the opersite when in some trans organisations with the men often taking over debates and discussions and the concerns of trans feminine people not being listened too. I talked a lot about the issues around gender critical and they were not often interestee until people started targeting them as well as trans woman

You matter.

Someone needs to tell you that once in a while.

This.

For a thread that everyone seemed to be saying mumsnet would remove it seems it will max. Out and end

Not for another 70 posts.

Surly no one is going to cock it up with saying something really Stupid.

Well.

I’m speechless.

#speechlessSpartacus

As we're approaching 1000 posts on this thread I'd just like to reiterate that biology is not bigotry, that sex matters both politically and personally, that male people cannot become female people, that woman = adult human female and no-one has yet been able to provide a sensible refutation of that fact.

So many women standing together today - representing so many more - is fabulous. The words used to demonstrate our solidarity and unity of purpose have been described as "weaponising" Kind of goady, today of all days....this is, after all, a fight for our personal and social existence based on our biological reality. We've been exhorted to debate our biological reality as though it's a 'concept' rather than the foundation of the lives we live. Many women made so angry by everything we're being expected to accept they delurked. Many still lurking but now thinking about where they actually sit with all this - given the prospective futures of daughters and granddaughters...

Thank you Pratchet for your phenomenal OP
And thank you everyone else who will not bow down, who refuse to be silent, who will fight for the privacy, safety and dignity of women and girls and who will promote science, biology and irrefutable facts in your arguments. I salute you all

Just popped by to say that biology is definitely not bigotry

Whilst I recover the capacity for speech a little, can I just do a begging post beseeching everyone who has posted here or lurked here nodding to Do Something in the real world about it?

Talk to friends, write to MPs, respond to the consultation, -write to MN’s advertisers-, make yourselves heard.

We can do this.

#alwaysSpartacus

The equalities minister opens the consultation on changes to the gender recognition act with a preposterous lie (look at the Emperors lovely new clothes) and women from all corners of mumsnet spontaneously gather on the feminist boards to share their horror and disbelief.

In classic female fashion they seek affirmation, stating basic biological facts, in the same way they would if any other basic reality had been challenged, akin to dropping something to check if gravity is still working. Other women chime in, agreeing, supporting, consoling. The way women do on mumsnet.

Then something sickening happens. First the thread is locked, then it is unlocked, then it is locked again "while we discuss in the office".

Then the pronouncement appears that too many different women all agreeing with each other has been decreed "inflammatory " but will condescendingly be "allowed to stand" just this once. So long as everyone agrees that future threads where different individuals state their beliefs will be deleted if too many women turn out to share the same opinion, because hundreds of upset women seeking to reassure themselves that someone is messing with the gas lighting system might potentially cause offence to people who dedicate themselves to trawling feminist discussion boards in search of anything they can find to be offended by.

So far so outrageous. Of course the women, the ones who have written the content that made mumsnet what it is, the ones who actually buy stuff from the advertisers, are deeply disturbed by this. Many of them post to say how this moderation policy is deeply traumatising because it so closely mirrors abusive relationships they have endured and escaped. They beg for moderators to take the mental health needs of long term site users into account when making decisions.

When the response comes it is astounding. We are warned that in future, when too many different women all agree with each other on a subject, they will have to watch out and make sure the police themselves and STFU, before the sheer volume of women agreeing that water is wet causes other people who catch sight of the thread to fear that "words are being weaponised" in a manner they might feel is hostile to their own religious faith in the dryness of water. Sound familiar? Yep, it's straight from the old "your words are LITERAL violence" #nodebate or we'll hit you with baseball bats wrapped in barbed wire school of advanced rhetoric. Cheers.

Interesting article on using the word "weaponise".

www.theguardian.com/science/2017/mar/27/weaponise-the-meaning-of-2017s-political-buzzword

In this way, immoderate use of the word “weaponise” is itself weaponised language in a war against democracy.

That is a most excellent article. Particularly relevant to this thread.

As Herrman points out, one baleful implication of the current popularity of the term “weaponise” is that it blurs the ethical lines between people accused of wielding metaphorical weapons and those who use real weapons to injure and kill people.

You know @MNHQ I find your stance completely incongruent and very offensive as it is now attacking your own user base - which is strange organisational behaviour for a business.

But it seems my offence at being attacked, and that of all the other women here, don't matter to you any more. Again strange for a site that has built its reputation and business on valuing women and their perspectives, as well as leveraging their purchasing power.

You talk about civil debate yet your organisational behaviour causes the very conflict you seek to eliminate. We are not in control of that, you are. So why are you punishing us for something you are causing? That is administrative abuse. By ignoring and enabling all the trolling that goes on here, that is targeted to derail women's discussions and incite them and provoke unrest, you are, at best, bystander bullying, if not, at worse, joining in with the trolls.

The trolls use well-known tactics that mirror those in domestic violence. Yet instead of tackling the trolling, which would be a lawful and reasonable response, you "batter" the victims. Why?

If you want civil debate, why are you punishing those who want that as well but are not denied it by the relentless trolling?

Threatening your core user base is also not a good look nor congruent with your brand positioning.

Of course, you could join all the other social media platforms and drive women off - but I thought your core user group was those women? The women who helped you build a business and standing as being one of the most influential women's sites in the UK - Wikipedia.

Exactly what are you trying to achieve? Because whatever it is, the methods you are using to compel it, are divisive and don't make sense from a strategic or user perspective and worse, are adding fuel to the fire you are trying to put out.

I imagine you are mindful of legal threats from certain quarters, and that your organisation seems vulnerable there, due to a precedent set by Gina Ford where the law needs enhancement to take account of the online environment. OK, I get that as would many others here. I also get that vulnerability will be exploited by the unscrupulous determined to make you pay for the views of your user base.

You are the meat in the sandwich so to speak. However, welcome to our world. So you have a golden opportunity to cement your brand and standing plus increase revenue. Yet you choose the opposite path that will harm your long-term business, for the sake of expediency.

I'll remind you that only a couple of banks did the right, moral thing by not foreclosing on miner's mortgages and loans during the 1984/5 strike. The miners and others never forgot them and moved all their business to them once they were back in work. Those banks understood their user base, which were a key part of their profitability, and chose to stick by them, as it made good business and moral sense in the long run.

You seem to be taking the path of the also-ran banks - driven by short-termism and unable to take the moral high ground, that ultimately is in your business best interest. That is disappointing, to say the least.

3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.

Appendum - if the desire is to reduce the real threat of legal actions designed to make you pay for the views of your users, may I suggest you scrap the recent guidelines and introduce one along the lines of:

The law as it stands makes us vulnerable to claims of bullying where personal attacks and slurs on individuals are prevalent from our user-base. Therefore, because the law is as it is, and we can't change it, would you please moderate your comments to ensure that no personal attacks are made. The grey area here is misgendering. Therefore use neutral terms like they.

We do not necessarily endorse this self-censoring, however, it is necessary to keep us legally compliant and to limit any possible vexatious legal action against us, which we are not in a position to defend ourselves against, due to the current law not taking account of the contemporary online environment.

We would, as a loyal user base, no doubt even mount campaigns to get the law changed to help you.

So work with us not against us - we are on your side - or trying to be, despite you pushing us away at present.

Squeaking in at the end of this thread to say that this is a wonderful thread to read! Thank you sisters!

Jaw dropped at mnhq, weaponised, wow. You won't live that down in a hurry!
Jaw dropped again at Snappity. Thanks for showing us your true self. Blind canals, wow. You will never live that down.

I note that there was still no answer to the definition of woman that includes women and transwomen but not non-binary/trans identifying females, and that isn't circular. If you want to change the definition, or expand it, it is your responsibility to make your new definition clear and your argument for it's replacement robust. As an eloquent mn poster has previously said, draw me a Venn diagram, what are the cross over characteristics?

Woman = adult human female
Female = of the sex caste that has potential to produce ova

That's not an attack, it's not a club, it just is. I don't actually care about how men feel about it.

Well there's the fear, Rat. And the bullying. And the doxxing. And MN data insecurity. And the frivolous complaints to employers. Oh and the bomb threat. And the punching. And the blockading. And the hacking. And the harassment. So you know. A few other factors

Interesting, all common XY behaviours.

I've been on MN for years and the one thing that attracted me to the place was the strong outspoken women here. A place by women and for women. I really enjoyed how XY were told to fuck off elsewhere and I wondered how long it would take for the XY folks to infiltrate and try to either take over or destroy MN. There are thousands and thousands of places for XY to post but you have a place predominantly female, created by and meant for women, then XY seek to destroy it. It's messed up.

I was very vocal during the 2nd wave of feminism and it will be a cold day in hades before I lay down and let what little rights we women have, that were fought hard for, be erased by XY.

There are thousands and thousands of places for XY to post but you have a place predominantly female, created by and meant for women, then XY seek to destroy it

We aren't to have anything at all for us. Not even a thread on a feminism board on a parenting website. Nothing. We are told we are allowed no more truth-speaking threads for collective comfort and support after this. No more threads saying 'a woman is an adult female human' that we can all come to in tough moments when the rest of the world is telling a lie.

XY don't like it, after all, and we can't have that.

I just love the women posting here and I love that other lurker thread. And (look away now TRA) our next rally cry must be Is my fanjo meant to have gondolas in it? as our CODE for Spartacus threads in future.

Only women & girls are born with vaginas.

Only women & girls are born with XX chromosomes.

Only women & girls are born with clitorises.

Anyone born with a penis is male.

Anyone born with testicles is male.

Anyone born with a prostate is male.

People who feel the need might have surgery to replicate the genitals of the other sex but they can only replicate them.

Claims that a replica of a vagina, created from an inverted penis or colon, is the same as the vagina of a woman post-hysterectomy, or that someone who has successfully fathered children is the same as an infertile woman due to their inability to get pregnant, are untrue, misogynist & appropriating women's experience.

Heartened by all the women here persevering under duress! The reaction from MNHQ is fucking shocking.

There is only one definition that can encompass women and males of the trans persuasion: non-men. With the lovely synonym of sub-human. Which for me explains it all. They see us as sub-human and we should be flautered they have lowered themselves to our pathetic level.

Sorry to end on such a bleak note.

Also I have just read again the posts from @BirdBandit and there aren't enough flowers in the world really. I hope you have a great day with your children. Also there was a stunning post from RedToothbrush which I didn't see at the time.

Untrue and misogynist sums it up, Empress. Insufficiently this non-men. With the lovely synonym of sub-human is exactly where they want us.