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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

A woman is an adult female human

999 replies

Pratchet · 03/07/2018 10:18

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

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ErrolTheDragon · 03/07/2018 23:55

Bloody hell, birdbandit. SadThanks

birdbandit · 03/07/2018 23:55

Shit, just forgot to change my user name, keep birdbandit for STBXH and other for chat about washing machines etc.

Pratchet · 03/07/2018 23:56

Oh Bird your situation is heart-breaking. I'm so sorry.

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 03/07/2018 23:56

I asked this when filling in the Scottish consultation - why would the Scottish government want to force people who want to divorce their partner to stay married to them? How is that in any way a positive outcome?

birdbandit · 03/07/2018 23:57

I'm going for unreasonable behaviour. He's nailed that.

Sorry to have hijacked the thread! I'm just angry about all this.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/07/2018 00:00

I'm sure no-one thinks you're hijacking, bird - this is a thread for people who understand that is vital to be able to assert 'a woman is an adult human being' and your case is horrible proof of the importance.

thebewilderness · 04/07/2018 00:00

The only difference I see in the behavior of Bespin is one of style, not of substance when they deliver their "I am not like those other guys" routine most women have heard a million times.

Bespin · 04/07/2018 00:01

That's ok birdbandit maybe ask for your other post to be changed by the mods too. I didn't agree with the Scottish rule that it's not grounds for devorce as we often get people involved in out lives who didn't ask for all of this and I'm ok with them having that choice to leave

birdbandit · 04/07/2018 00:01

I don't believe anyone here has a problem with well mannered transsexuals joining the party, it's cool, no problem. Let's have fun.

We are just aghast at our concerns about thing we experience, being dismissed.

Has anyone been on pornhub recently? It's not like "sissy" is niche anymore.

Bespin · 04/07/2018 00:04

thebewilderness you really appear not to be able to let anyone have a discussion around theae topics do you without assuming we are all the same or that we might have some comman ground in this or actually agree. Why is it so important that we are seen as the bad guys

RedToothBrush · 04/07/2018 00:06

Pratchet, I thought your last post on the surrogacy thread was perfect. Lies.

I make a point of trying to listen to what is NOT said by the media, in addition to what IS said. The silence is often more telling than that which is said.

What's odd is that the likes of pink news only ever quote the 'juicy stuff'. Not the stuff that sticks to the point and can cut straight through the crap.

Now if we to do an autopsy on two bodies; one a transwomen post surgery, and one a woman would a skilled professional pathologist be able to tell the difference between bone structure, tell the difference between tissue type and spot tell tale scars?

Of course they would. That's their job.

Cos tbh, I think we are being led down a blind canal end with this discussion rather than having 'biological' or 'surgical' dead ends.

Cosmetically something might do a good job of looking like something, but even if it's 'none functioning', it's still fundamentally structured at a cellular level which human science can not recreate and there are markers to see this, if you have good enough understanding of biology.

Unless you are going to ban pathologists for being transphobic. And doctors. And biologists.

I really don't see why we are discussing in any other way. Apart from to satisfy the delusional and power trip of someone. It doesn't stop the reality being reality. Pointing out the reality isn't malicious. Mainly because it's essential to a woman's own sense of self too.

Respect is born of appreciating that you can not resolve your own issues by trying to foist them on someone else to deal with or to try and destroy their sense of worth.

Every time you tell a woman that a surgically treated body has changed sex, that's what you are doing: attacking her biology and sense of self, because you can't come to terms with your own.

That's malicious and vicious.

She can not stop being female. Even if she too has surgery. She just is.

That's the point. People just need to be. You can't alter that reality. It is our inescapable fate. You can try and change society, but those demons don't go away. They follow you round, eating up you mind anyway, cos deep down you always know.

Peace comes only from accepting that and not expecting everyone else to indulge in and uphold your fantasy.

It makes me sad to say this, because it's a harsh cold reality that some people don't like to be confronted with. The trouble is, staying silence is something I regard as equally cruel and harmful by its consequences. And I wish I could change it for those who don't feel right to take away their pain. But I can't. Because it's a lie.

A whopping great cruel lie to both those who are trans and those who are women. It serves the interest of neither to get into the technical similarities (or lack of) between post op and biologically born.

We must speak the truth. And we must speak the truth to power. Because the power of the truth is what sets us all free.

Bespin · 04/07/2018 00:06

I have a lot of issues with the male. Objectification of trans bodies and how that is seen by society as a whole there is a lot of interesting thought on why men do this and why it often can lead to abuse form them

birdbandit · 04/07/2018 00:06

I wish @Bespin that you were in the social circle of any of the trans widows, it has been hell.

MN is the only place where I don't get dogs abuse for not being progressive enough, too vanilla, not woke. Or usually just ignored. My experience doesn't fit people's imagination of what is happening, so I'm labelled bitter or a TERF.

We have kids, and I'm disgusted that they are being reduced to collateral damage.

R0wantrees · 04/07/2018 00:08

We are just aghast at our concerns about thing we experience, being dismissed.

I think this is one of the most important things said today.

birdbandit · 04/07/2018 00:09

@RedToothBrush I did worry for the archaeologist working on the new Vesuvius dig on TV the other day, are they still allowed to determine skeletons as M/F? Seemed like they were potentially in tricky water.

birdbandit · 04/07/2018 00:11

Anyway off to bed, I have kids to look after tomorrow. Night all.

SpareRibFem · 04/07/2018 00:11

Bespin if you want to not be seen as one of the bad guys we'd appreciate it if you would refrain from 'goading' thebewilderness

Bespin · 04/07/2018 00:13

birdbandit I do know someone who is facing this though a friend of my partners and they asked us for support for her father who was doing all the things you discribe and in no way could I support them in that though I have supported her mother who like you was just shocked that this had happened.
Personally I hate the pain that I may have caused others in distroying what they thought I was and I and they have paid a heavy price for that and no one asks for this to happen to them.

Bespin · 04/07/2018 00:15

SpareRibFem please read back. The thread thebewilderness was not actively discussing the things that where said and then came in with a general statement about me nothing to do. With the topic at all

RedToothBrush · 04/07/2018 00:18

Birdbandit, people sadly, all too often just don't want to see the ugly side because if they do they might have to do something about it. And doing something about it, might mean confronting people with things they don't want to hear.

It's easier to tell people who are polite to be quiet than to tell someone who is abusive and might lash out at you, to stop behaving like that.

There are too many people taking the path of least resistance and deliberately turning a blind eye, because what lies beneath is must harder to deal with.

If it doesn't affect you directly it's easy to just walk away and view it as someone else's problem or something that happens so rarely it doesn't matter. Except it happens more than people want to admit and it most defintely does matter.

You matter.

Someone needs to tell you that once in a while.

birdbandit · 04/07/2018 00:22

One more, believe me, STBXH is not "one of those guys" either. He has a brilliant pitch (he's very, very senior in Marketing, no surprise) where he's all about innate feelings which get backdated in every telling. He HATES me for knowing this really started 4 years ago and has escalated from coping strategies (porn) he developed to cope with stress.

In his pitch he's equal parts victim and hero, the porn is minimised and explained away as "something he did because it was his only outlet for his gender feelings".

Hilariously this isn't his first sexual obsession. There has been other, radically different things come and go (pun intended) which felt as valid and immediate and vital to him back then, but just evaporated when he moved on to the next high.

He needs help for the root cause, not the symptoms. He is also being failed by this lunacy. God help him when he's past this pink fog, and he's fucked up his life and spent his savings on clothes and boobs.

NotBadConsidering · 04/07/2018 00:25

Absolutely staggered that MNHQ used the word weaponised. I just...can't articulate what I think of that without risking a ban. Mind blowing.

Bespin · 04/07/2018 00:31

birdbandit I really hope that your life gets better and that your parnter finds what they are looking for in this though if what you say is correct they are in for a very u. For filled life because when all the excitement sd gone you are just left. Being you and facing all the same. Things you did before, for me it as helped be face them having delt with the thing that was holding me back I have meet I've the year a number of people who have felt that this would solve all there problems and it very rarely ever does

thebewilderness · 04/07/2018 00:33

Absolutely staggered that MNHQ used the word weaponised. I just...can't articulate what I think of that without risking a ban. Mind blowing.

I know!
We aren't effing buying sex positive eyeliner here, are we?

womanformallyknownaswoman · 04/07/2018 00:36

Since when can men be women?

If that's a belief if yours then you've been duped and subject to undue influence - I am concerned for your psychological safety.

Seems like many have been made to drink the kool-aid.

Really if you believe that the majority of the Great British public believe that and will sanction that, then truly you are deep in some rabbit hole