Huge meta-study finds that transition helps trans people

[WAKAME]

whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/%20what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people%20/

Some excerpts:

"We conducted a systematic literature review of all peer-reviewed articles published in English between 1991 and June 2017 that assess the effect of gender transition on transgender well-being."

"This search found a robust international consensus in the peer-reviewed literature that gender transition, including medical treatments such as hormone therapy and surgeries, improves the overall well-being of transgender individuals. The literature also indicates that greater availability of medical and social support for gender transition contributes to better quality of life for those who identify as transgender."

"Regrets following gender transition are extremely rare and have become even rarer as both surgical techniques and social support have improved. Pooling data from numerous studies demonstrates a regret rate ranging from .3 percent to 3.8 percent. Regrets are most likely to result from a lack of social support after transition or poor surgical outcomes using older techniques."

"the health and well-being of transgender people can be harmed by stigmatizing and discriminatory treatment."

Toddlers, @WAKAME, toddlers. You're ok with toddlers transitioning?

You support transitioning children?
Transitioning children sterilizes them, at an age when they aren't considered mature enough to consent to sexual activity.

Wakame - you have been given a link to a thread with full detailed analysis, so you are being selective with your comments.

One of the characteristics of the ideology you promote is unswerving devotion to the illusions. You won't find that illusion adopted by many here.

I like the sound (not) of Olson's paper on the "preschool transgender child". No confirmation bias there, then.

A bit like this quack who thinks a baby girl taking hair slides out means she is really a boy

4thwavenow.com/2016/09/29/gender-affirmative-therapist-baby-who-hates-barrettes-trans-boy-questioning-sterilization-of-11-year-olds-same-as-denying-cancer-treatment/

For that argument to work, you will first need to establish that trans women are not women.

8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

For that argument to work, you will first need to establish that trans women are not women.

Nope that's not how it works. You think they are, you are making the extraordinary claim. You prove it.

"For the right to disbelieve in god and not be burned at the stake for your heresy, you will first have to establish that He doesn't exist"

"Bet you can't! Can you? CAN YOU?"

For your argument to work, you will first need to establish that trans women are women.

She/he who asserts must prove.

For that argument to work, you will first need to establish that trans women are not women.

If trans women were women they wouldn't need to transition would they?

For that argument to work, you will first need to establish that trans women are not women.

Incorrect - it's you who need to establish that they are, as it's you who's attempting to redefine the word "woman" to mean "adult male human who's undergone a variety of cosmetic procedures and taken hormonal supplements".

We all know that you can't do that, which is why you're attempting to preemptively redefine words and hope that women won't challenge you on it. As you've no doubt already learned in your internet travels, we can and we will.

humpty.jpg

A survey of roughly 3000 trans women showed that only 23% of them identified as heterosexual, with 31% as bisexual, 29% as lesbian, 7% as asexual, 7% as queer and 2% as "other" so by your own argument, transition increases the number of lesbians. But seriously, are you saying that trans women who are attracted to men should be forced to live as gay men?

Alex here is a fully male-bodied, self-identified "lesbian", so I would say the devil is in the detail there.

29% of transgender identified males claim to be Lesbians. That is one hell of a lot of predatory males screaming death threats at Lesbians who refuse to "date" them.

Don't forget the bisexual and "queer" ones.

I'm 100% in favor of people wearing whatever they want and would thus be fine with Alex (though from a fashion perspective I question that skirt with those boots) if he wasn't calling himself a lesbian. "Lesbian" does not mean "straight man in Uggs".

"You're ok with toddlers transitioning?"

What do you mean by "transitioning"? If you mean surgery and hormones, then no, but then no one advocates for that, nor is there any need for it. If you mean supporting a child in their gender identity, then yes, I'm very OK with that.

"Transitioning children sterilizes them,"

So does does suicide.

"8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are."

The 9th rule of misogyny: Women who disagree with TERFs are "handmaidens". Incidentally, did you know that trans men exist too?

"She/he who asserts must prove."

It seems my society and my government already accept me as female. You can call me male if you like, but I don't have any reason to believe you. I'll tell you what though, if someone with an understanding of the complexity and nuance of human sexual dimorphism wants to attempt to explain, I am happy to listen.

"it's you who's attempting to redefine the word "woman" to mean "adult male human who's undergone a variety of cosmetic procedures and taken hormonal supplements"."

As I said, I am already defined as a woman. Feel free to dispute that. Your definition of woman appears to be rather different to mine - I was never male - I wouldn't have transitioned if I was.

"If trans women were women they wouldn't need to transition would they?"

The problem with being a trans woman is the same as the problem of being a cis woman with a beard. Women on the whole are uncomfortable with having overt physical masculinities. We are also on the whole, uncomfortable with being perceived as male by other people. So transition is the process by which trans people change their physical characteristics from masculine to feminine, and their legal and social status to female.

"29% of transgender identified males claim to be Lesbians. That is one hell of a lot of predatory males screaming death threats at Lesbians who refuse to "date" them."

Of course, all trans lesbians are predatory males who scream death threats. I don't think you thought that through, but I am glad you posted it - such comments are just as helpful as "trans men should be sterilised" for trans activists. Please make more of them.

"Alex here is a fully male-bodied, self-identified "lesbian", so I would say the devil is in the detail there."

Ah - the beard again. She looks a lot like Harnaam Kaur don't you think? She is a woman I admire very much because she sports a full beard. For me, and couple of cis female friends I have with PCOS, that is not something we are comfortable with, but I think it's great that she is.

metro.co.uk/2017/08/01/bearded-lady-and-proud-bullies-told-me-to-die-because-of-my-pcos-but-now-i-love-my-look-6808201/

Brevity is a virtue.

Toddlers don't have an understanding of gender, and nothing that a toddler does requires any difference according to their sex, bar very basic hygiene.

Anyone sensible would allow a toddler to play and explore however they like without overlaying adult definitions of gender/sex-based stereotypes onto them. They are expressing their personality, not an adult idea of a gender identity.

""Transitioning children sterilizes them,"

So does does suicide."

And here we have the threat and the emotional blackmail. Your child will die if you don't accept my belief system.

My son wore a dress by choice for years. Was he expressing his gender identity? Was he f.

WAKAME the fact that a Cornell study can be trashed by someone with no academic qualifications speaks volumes of the poor quality of work by the Cornell Academics. I am academically qualified in this field, completed many systematic reviews, and a cursory glance would suggest none of the studies included would meet even the basic quality criteria for inclusion in a robust review. It even says they count narrative reviews as additional studies. There is so much bias here - and that is before you even start to consider publication bias.

WAKAME I don't think anyone was saying ALL trans lesbians are predatory males who shout death threats at lesbians, but surely you have to admit, there are a LOT of them about?

As long as people like you try to brush this under the carpet and don't stand with lesbians against this violence and threats from trans lesbians - e.g. by calling out the word TERF as hate speech - you're demonstrating you don't care about the safety of women.

What's with all the baseball bats, for example? FFS.

I’ve asked this before but got no response, perhaps you can help WAKAME? Please could you provide the reference for a peer-review study of suicide rates (not self-reported attempts) amongst transgender individuals, including robust statistical analysis to exclude confounding variables (eg, age, sex, comorbidities), and how these change pre and post transition? Suicide is so often brought up as a tragic outcome for transgender individuals that surely such robust statistics exist?

WAKAME and what about the many kids who ID as the opposite sex on and off, or perhaps all the way till puberty - and then at some point work out that actually they're gay.

If they're already on hormone blockers, where does that leave them?

Are you not concerned about their health?

"Refusing the most effective treatment for a recognised medical condition in children that causes depression, self-harm and suicidal ideation, is child abuse. If you know of a more effective treatment, please cite it along with evidence of its efficacy. In the meantime, you may find this recent study informative:"

The difficulty with that argument is that while transition under the WPATH SOC is internationally recognised as the most effective treatment for adults with severe gender dissonance, there is no similar consensus yet whether it is the best treatment for all or even most children. It might be, but there's not enough evidence yet, nor is there international consensus among medical professionals. Right now, I think that means parents should normally decide. If the doctors think that in a particular case the parents have reached an obviously incorrect decision, then a court should decide.

I appreciate how much difference intervention before puberty can make and the distress and complications delay can cause, but I don't think there yet is sufficient scientific evidence support the position you take.

I don't think there yet is sufficient scientific evidence support the position you take.

This.