Huge meta-study finds that transition helps trans people

[WAKAME]

whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/%20what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people%20/

Some excerpts:

"We conducted a systematic literature review of all peer-reviewed articles published in English between 1991 and June 2017 that assess the effect of gender transition on transgender well-being."

"This search found a robust international consensus in the peer-reviewed literature that gender transition, including medical treatments such as hormone therapy and surgeries, improves the overall well-being of transgender individuals. The literature also indicates that greater availability of medical and social support for gender transition contributes to better quality of life for those who identify as transgender."

"Regrets following gender transition are extremely rare and have become even rarer as both surgical techniques and social support have improved. Pooling data from numerous studies demonstrates a regret rate ranging from .3 percent to 3.8 percent. Regrets are most likely to result from a lack of social support after transition or poor surgical outcomes using older techniques."

"the health and well-being of transgender people can be harmed by stigmatizing and discriminatory treatment."

Thats a really weird fucking thing to do to your guests

Isn't it?

I've got work to do. Procrastination is the thief of time.

Are pronouns gender or sex though? Wikipedia says pronouns reflect gender and then that they reflect .male or female ...which is sex.

But yes, getting rid of pronouns which emphasis either sex or gender is perhaps a great idea.

No means no. No penis in female spaces. Make your own unisex spaces, we'll join you when we choose to.

Both groups are women so B1lly you are saying essentially that women like you are more important and should have more respect for their rights than other women who are different to you. That's the sort of argument men has used for years about women and it is very sad to see that sort of view peddled in a feminist area.

I am not saying that women are more important than transgender people. And please note that I did not refer to transmen or transwomen. But I am saying that women have the right to same-sex spaces just as men do. And the fact that transition helps transgender people is fantastic for them, and I'm genuinely happy if it does, but still does not mean that women should just roll over and allow invasion into same-sex spaces. Sex does not equal gender otherwise the term transgender is meaningless!

Of course all the peer reviews data backs a certain position, universities will specifically disallow research into anything that might challenge this narrative. As indeed the chap who wanted to study those who detransitioned. THATS how humanities academia work nowadays they promote a certain political agenda and only look into things that support their chosen narrative and subvert or hound out any dissident or challenging voices. Now they get to wave around their “findings” and try to pretend the red of us are stupid.

Maybe I'm just a bad influence but I feel like if everyone is still woke at the end it can't have been much of a party...

I love you!

Also not validating this bollocks (word chosen deliberately) any further.

In case this has been missed this has already been posted and debunked.

"But I am saying that women have the right to same-sex spaces just as men do. And the fact that transition helps transgender people is fantastic for them, and I'm genuinely happy if it does, but still does not mean that women should just roll over and allow invasion into same-sex spaces. Sex does not equal gender otherwise the term transgender is meaningless!"

So when you want to enter one of these mythical same-sex spaces how are you going to prove your right to be there to the door-keeper? Are you going to prove your sex? I doubt it. And if the door keeper asked for proof of sex I bet you would be terribly offended. I suspect you expect to be admitted based on your gender presentation? So really what you have is spaces with an entrance policy based on gender, not sex at all. And actually that is what you want.

Of maybe you would like to have to prove your sex - whatever that means - every time you want to swim or go to the gymn. What a terribly retrograde step that would be for feminism.

"Just popped over to #mumsnet for a quick browse & noticed the thread from Wakame on transition studies. Women should know he's a well known troll from other boards"

Indeed.

My heart sank when I saw them posting here.

My heart sank when I saw them posting here.

Me too. What's funny is reading when Wakame posts in the comments on Feminist Current articles. They take no prisoners.

Although, they are useful for peak transing folk.

"Of course all the peer reviews data backs a certain position, universities will specifically disallow research into anything that might challenge this narrative. As indeed the chap who wanted to study those who detransitioned. THATS how humanities academia work nowadays they promote a certain political agenda and only look into things that support their chosen narrative and subvert or hound out any dissident or challenging voices. Now they get to wave around their “findings” and try to pretend the red of us are stupid."

Not true. For a long time JHU took a very different position on transition but they now accept their work has been discredited.

"Matthew Greenfield on Twitter did a marvellous take down of each and every one of the 56 studies referred to by Cornell:
twitter.com/doormatt134/status/984339908658651138"

I wonder if he'd apply the same standards to studies which support his worldview

'mythical same sex space' - I've seen that used on Reddit.
And not on the feminist boards.

Wikipedia on gender is written by transactivists.

Me too. What's funny is reading when Wakame posts in the comments on Feminist Current articles. They take no prisoners.

Innit!

So when you want to enter one of these mythical same-sex spaces how are you going to prove your right to be there to the door-keeper? Are you going to prove your sex? I doubt it. And if the door keeper asked for proof of sex I bet you would be terribly offended. I suspect you expect to be admitted based on your gender presentation? So really what you have is spaces with an entrance policy based on gender, not sex at all. And actually that is what you want.

Luckily I'm not in charge. And I would expect those of the other sex to me to be honourable and use a unisex or opposite sex facility. However. I wouldn't call them out on it (as I suspect most women wouldn't) if they used the women's facility as long as they behaved appropriately. But women should retain the right to protest and have ejected a male, in a female only space, who is behaving in appropriately - eg leering, perving, wanking, flashing, etc and them not be protected from being removed by claiming to be female. I really don't think that's unreasonable?
I do think you should have to prove your sex for intimate care/health work, refuges, prisons etc however. But discretely to employers, not all and sundry.

I wonder if he'd apply the same standards to studies which support his worldview

Why is this relevant? The bad science is there laid out for all to see.

And kindly do not put words iny mouth and say what I want.

Contrary to what is claimed above, this US meta study (which was indeed discussed at length and taken apart by our resident scientists in April - thread now deleted but it still shows up in search weirdly enough) makes no difference to the legal right of trans people in the UK to access medical treatment.

Therefore it does not matter to the FWR board.

And all this guff about different kinds of women from Gibberty - there is only one kind of woman. And that is an adult human female. That's it.

Transwomen are not a kind of women, they are transwomen. Born male, now adult human males ie men. They will die as men. Their skeletal remains will be identified as male. Their DNA will show them to be male up until the point where their remains have disintegrated into atoms. And even then they still don't become female, they have simply ceased to exist.

Gosh this is getting boring... So, take your study elsewhere. Maybe entertain a trans forum with it? It would seem a much more suitable place for this.

thread now deleted but it still shows up in search weirdly enough

Why was THAT thread deleted? There was some fantastic debunking on that thread some of it was mine.

YetAnotherSpartacus

I know! I went looking for it coz I was in that thread too (not doing the debunking) and got an oops the page is gone, immediately wishing I had saved the pages. That thread was excellent.

Have noticed this before btw, that some of the threads started by our resident TRAs posting supposedly incontrovertible proof of this or the other which get thoroughly debunked by our resident scientists then disappear.

I can only guess that the OPs in question ask for the thread to be deleted after a certain amount of time has passed to make sure such dangerous writing never shows up in Google...

But that's just speculation on my part, of course.

I was wrong - although I only got there via Google. Must try and do this next time a Mumsnet search brings me an oops page. Maybe my MN search is broken? Would make me a lot happier than thinking OPs are having threads deleted if they don't go their way...

Anyway, here is the April thread on the same study:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3218027-Huge-new-study-of-trans-people-released

Oh excellent! Thanks for finding!