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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ooh step back, India Willoughby is going to penetrate the Mumsnet debate

999 replies

ALittleBitOfButter · 16/04/2018 02:21

Just saw on twitter that IW says will do radio interview about Mumsnet. Sorry can't link as on phone.

OP posts:
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AngryAttackKittens · 16/04/2018 09:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

R0wantrees · 16/04/2018 09:49

Hopefully anyone searching 'transgender' will also look at the response to Justine and MNHQ's stance against bullying tactics in AIBU? It speaks volumes: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3222471-AIBU-to-be-extremely-proud-of-Justine-Roberts-Mumsnet-right-now

AngryAttackKittens · 16/04/2018 09:50

So many names on that thread I hadn't seen before. Minority, eh? I'm not so sure about that.

RosenbergW · 16/04/2018 09:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SmurfOrTerff · 16/04/2018 09:55

I haven't heard the programme yet, but the JHB/LM one is on YouTube, so I'm hoping this will be too

Datun · 16/04/2018 09:58

What India was on that show last time, she relentlessly denied that male violence has anything to do with transwomen.

She is either woefully uninformed, or quite happy to not tell the truth.

The subverting that goes on with the issue of male violence really pisses me off. Transwomen are a subset of men, and conform to male pattern violence and male pattern behaviour (India is the archetypal example the latter. So much so that Julia had to prep her beforehand over her dominating tactics).

So when women point out the obvious problem of allowing a subset men to access women everywhere, India pretends that they are attacking transwomen, specifically.

The fact that she does it time after time is very telling. The argument will run out of steam, because it's so easy to refute.

India's one hundred percent conviction over everything she says, is the only argument she has. The content of what she says is rubbish.

And I'd also like to know when have transactivists offered to come on here and have a debate? As India asserted!!!!

We have had the odd transactivist here, and they've disappeared quite quickly when their argument falls apart.

There is omething very odd about India when she makes claims that are so easy to refute. The drag queen thing, male pattern violence, a panel of TRAs have offered to come on here, etc.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 16/04/2018 09:59

I don't think that's the orginal one. It all blew up with a thread called something like "Mumsnet, this is bollocks" but I am having trouble finding it

Thanksforthatamazingpost · 16/04/2018 10:01

I can't figure out the listen again....

R0wantrees · 16/04/2018 10:02

For anyone who missed it, Janice Turner's article in The Times is worth considering..
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-activists-think-debate-is-hate-speech-hsh7vpmzt

How do you debate when one side believes no debate can exist, that to ask questions is hate speech and must be silenced even with force? Yesterday the trans activist Tara Wolf, 26, was found guilty of assaulting the 60-year-old feminist Maria MacLachlan in Hyde Park before a meeting on the GRA. I witnessed it. A young, angry 6ft-plus hooded person punched her around the face. After the verdict police warned Ms MacLachlan’s supporters not to leave court because masked activists were waiting outside.

On Thursday the Mercure Hotel in Cardiff cancelled a longstanding booking for a meeting to be held that day by the group A Woman’s Place, on the grounds it “does not tolerate any form of racist, sexist or bigoted behaviour”. Bigoted? The speakers, including a feminist writer and a former Welsh Assembly member, were there to defend existing law. It is hardly a far-out position to uphold the 2010 Equalities Act which permits female-only exemptions for rape crisis and domestic violence refuges.

A Woman’s Place has six demands, including “respectful and evidence-based discussion” and for impact assessments on how proposed changes to the GRA, allowing natal men to self-ID as women, will affect data-gathering on crime, health and the gender pay gap. Pretty extreme stuff. This was the latest event to be cancelled after trans activists bombarded venues with intimidation and abuse. Glasgow, Lewisham, the Conway Hall . . . even Millwall FC, famed for their slogan “fear no foe”, withdrew a recent room booking after their switchboard was jammed and protests threatened. A Woman’s Place must ticket an event without revealing its location until a few hours before the start. Even then, as in Cardiff, it must secure a back-up venue. (A primary school whose governor activists are now hounding).

How does this happen? This is a complex debate but on the phone to meek receptionists and scared middle managers, trans activists keep it simple. They say: “These evil women are social conservatives who hate trans people. They’re like Tory bigots who brought in Section 28 and hated gays. They want to eradicate trans women; they incite violence against them. They deny their humanity and want them dead. Do you want your company to be part of that?”

It is ludicrous, of course. The feminists, including many lesbians, have fought for LGBT rights: without exception they believe trans people should live free from violence, indignity or discrimination. (A Woman’s Place has trans members and speakers.)

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 16/04/2018 10:02

Got it

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2716008-Seriously-MN-this-is-fucking-bullshit

SwearyG · 16/04/2018 10:03

Yes Datun the comment about transactivists coming on to debate didn’t ring true at all did it (much like everything else India said)?

Surely nobody here was invited or applied? We registered and joined it, and there would be nothing to stop a TRA coming on to do the same. Except they do come, and they have the holes in their arguments pointed out so they call us all bigots and run away.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 16/04/2018 10:04

Assigned:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2716008-Seriously-MN-this-is-fucking-bullshit?pg=1

R0wantrees · 16/04/2018 10:07

Datun: And I'd also like to know when have transactivists offered to come on here and have a debate? As India asserted!!!!

This is a really important example of the need for people in the Transgender community (especially those with a public platform) not to believe everything they read written or re-tweeted on Twitter!

ScarletBegonias · 16/04/2018 10:10

Assigned - was this the one you were thinking of?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2716595-TransAgenda-BullShit-The-I-am-Spartacus-Thread
It seems to be different from the one mentioned above.
(Apologies if that isn't clickable because I'm not sure how to do that.)

RosenbergW · 16/04/2018 10:11

I'm pretty sure when that one got filled up another was started too but I can't find a link. Did it fill up to a third thread also?

Melamin · 16/04/2018 10:12

I can't figure out the listen again....

You seem to have to listen in real time, or sign up to listen again. Hopefully someone will put it on YT.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 16/04/2018 10:14

The orginal:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2716595-TransAgenda-BullShit-The-I-am-Spartacus-Thread

Mumsnut · 16/04/2018 10:15

Maybe , in anticipation of an influx, we should prepare a 'welcome mat' of the old threads laying out our concerns?

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 16/04/2018 10:15

Oh thanks Scarlet and Rosen

Mumsnut · 16/04/2018 10:15

Maybe 'sticky' some?

Thanksforthatamazingpost · 16/04/2018 10:17

Ah, I've found it now.

talkradio.co.uk/radio/listen-again/1523856600#

Thanksforthatamazingpost · 16/04/2018 10:18

I must say, India talked over everyone else all the time.

Why doesn't she let people finish? It makes it much harder to follow.

yetanothertranswoman · 16/04/2018 10:21

I must say, India talked over everyone else all the time

I just wished she'd have waited, let people say their piece and tried to remain calm. I can just imagine her in the studio chomping at the bit desperate to get in.

And when she talked about 'women having a penis' - you can just imagine how that would play out.

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