Ooh step back, India Willoughby is going to penetrate the Mumsnet debate

[ALittleBitOfButter]

Just saw on twitter that IW says will do radio interview about Mumsnet. Sorry can't link as on phone.

Bad spelling. ^^ should be trans.

I'll admit that I grit my teeth every time I see TGLWGH. I've done that over the years with abusive ex and his new wife, and it doesn't really work. Drama queen 'victims' who squawk about how hurt they are always win over those who maintain a dignified silence.

Fuck 'em.

India - if you're reading this, just remember that people form an impression of the trans community from people like you.

Women are allowed to speak and discuss things. Some things you won't like to hear but we need less polarisation and more talk.

Yeah, I'm bowing to community consensus on TGLWGH (as much as a I can, a tendency to snark comes built in for some of us) but I question its long term effectiveness and am concerned about the stifling of the need to vent which many women have when they first hit peak trans.

Also when I say I'm bowing to consensus on this I mean on trans issues only. Good old fashioned misogynistic men trolling and vomiting up hatred of women, particularly on threads about sensitive issues like rape? Not making any promises there.

Nevertheless Justine Roberts and MNHQ have just massively stuck their necks out for us following extensive discussions during which we agreed to a less combative tone and no personal attacks on individuals.

I think you're overcorrecting in a way that's not necessarily helpful. Just my opinion, obviously, others may disagree. If even mild snark isn't allowed then these boards won't be a very fun place to be, and humor is a way of dealing with stress for a lot of people.

I think it's a matter of timing, as much as anything.

But India!

If Bic Ladyshave cannot adverrise to us how will we ever maintain our womanly depilation responsibility to your exacting standards?

Women. Please Shave Responsibly

On Women's Hour, India Willoughby
Protested the dreadful hostility
When host Jenni Murray
Questioned legality
And palatability
of enforced femininity
our employability
In direct jeopardy
How do you feel about sex inequality?
But India doesn't see what could our problem be;

We all lack docility
And malleability
In all probability
We've outlived utility
We're showing senility
Unacceptibility
Hairy-legged bristly
Offends my fragility.
affront to civility
lacks amiability
prompts irritability
flocculent woollyfly
unshorn pilifery
incomprehensibly
unclean hirsutery
call yourselves womanly?
Buy a depilatory
Shave responsibly.

Hairy
Great!

The tone on page one wasn't show casing your articulate views in the best light! Calling TGLWGH was spot on. India has some views on leg shaving other than that and identifying AS a woman not WITH women she's hardly the nastiest trans right activist out there.
On CBB i found india to be one part endearing/vulnerable the other part annoying stroppy teenager.

JHB has form for inviting people who don't make their are of interest look good, if she's not particularly fond of their area of interest. On trans, I think a voice like hers is needed as she's the only person I've ever heard speak quite plainly about it, you know, what people are thinking but can't say.

There are many who are very happy that it's open season on mumsnet.

Let them have their go. It will bring oxygen to the debate.

What will the 'normal' public think of those who abuse mothers and say they are bigotted for discussing their biology and female reproduction.

@Hairylittlepoet nicely put!

She doesn't get jumped on as much as she's less of a threat. Hadley Freeman is much more of a threat.

Buy a depilatory
Shave responsibly

LOL! Don't make me laugh when I have a cup of tea in hand!

Yeah, if I was a friend of India's I'd be whispering "it's a stitch up", given the way the interview with Madigan went. IF JHB was aiming for a supportive interview I think she'd have invited someone else.

Hadley has been quietly marvelous for years and I'm delighted to see her sticking her head above the parapet.

At least Talkradio is actually doing it. Does JHB even call herself a feminist? The BBC actually disciplined its Feminist in Chief on this as its programming has beeen silent on it ever since.

Brill, when can we expect this enlightening event?

Brilliant, Hairylittlepoet.

I think the adjoinder “play the ball, not the man” is pertinent on threads like this. The Times article was about MN giving space for the trans debate, so I think hearing a trans voice on this is fine. The fact GC trans voices are rarely heard is an issue journalistically, because it gives no indication of different POV within the transcommunity. Interviewing IW on this issue when IW has a track record of dismissing women’s legitimate concerns about male violence and on restrictive socialisation norms does beg the question of whether IW is an appropriate trans representative on this topic. I can see IW expressing views that would erode public support for trans people.

This might be interesting. Julia Hartley Brewer isn't a radical feminist. But her track record with this issue is unequivocal incredulity.

I'm pretty certain India has been on her show before, via phone.

They got a slightly easier ride than LM. But then India is fairly articulate and can argue a point.

And I agree, it's open season on mumsnet, now.

The more people hear about it, the more people will come and look.

It's a mistake to think that everyone blindly accepts what you say without coming to check for themselves.

I imagine India will be negative, but she's not given to saying some of the nonsensical rubbish that other transactivists spout.

if I was a friend of India's I'd be whispering "it's a stitch up"

Red rag to a bull, IW would feel compelled to go ahead and prove how smart they are.