Ooh step back, India Willoughby is going to penetrate the Mumsnet debate

[ALittleBitOfButter]

Just saw on twitter that IW says will do radio interview about Mumsnet. Sorry can't link as on phone.

I was looking for the clip of how India responded recently to Karen Ingalla Smith and couldn't find it, but it is described here by NIcola Williams: fairplayforwomen.com/thank-india-w-showing-us-women-perceive-transwomen-still-male/

"Without pausing to let Karen speak India then crossed a line – a line that has lost him all respect from me and I hope all the women watching – India dared to tell Karen that her website contains a list of crimes committed by men and that this was is a great demonisation.
“I feel really sorry for guys this year – I think they’ve had it really tough”.
India was referring to this; the list of 138 women killed by their male partners or ex-partners last year. This is the annual list that Karen compiles every year with the details of every death in honour of these women. It is the work that told us for the first time that 2-3 woman are killed every week by intimate partners. Yet, all India can see is the vilification of men. I wonder why?
Karen explains what the list is about. “Well there you go – you have one track – one topic of conversation – not all men are bad. There a plenty good guys in this world”
Yes, you heard it right – India Willoughby has just told the head of an organisation that exists to help women after they have been abused by men – that she has only one track! Well thank heavens they do – women need these services and people like Karen who dedicate themselves to this cause. There are currently around 80,000 men in prison in England and Wales compared to just 4000 women. 10,000 of those men are convicted sex offenders compares to a minuscule 126 women. Every statistic you care to look at shows without doubt that violence and abuse is overwhelmingly committed by males.
How dare India mock this cause. India says she’s a woman – well I don’t see your womanhood India. This looks a lot like someone gesticulating full of male privilege and spouting off about stuff they know nothing about. All I see is someone victim blaming women, talking over women, ignoring women."

Isn't Jenny Murray positively in fluffy bunny territory compared to Julia?

India speaks over JHB and Justine doesn't. Quelle surprise!

JHB defending MN concerns very well - is about self-ID and being transphobic for even suggesting that a trans woman is a man. Justine is on the phone so it's more difficult I think to put herself across. Justine is challenging the need to debate competing rights.

India is horrid. India won’t see that men are a threat to women. India is a bit of a tool to be honest.

JHB is amazing!

I've just searched 'transgender' in MN - and funnily enough its nothing like IW is describing.

WTGLWGH

India telling everyone to go on Mumsnet, search transgender and see the bile/invective. Saying 'I am Spartacus' and outing trans people. Never seen anyone outing anybody. JHB will be discussing Girl Guides tomorrow. Finished now.

The "demonizing men" comment was a bit of a tell in terms of which "team" India instinctively considers themselves to be on.

Like, my dad would know better than to say that, and he's almost 70. Come on now.

Well - that was a waste of 20 minutes. India just talked over people, got angry, didn't give any answers and didn't listen to any concerns.

I hope they do look up the Spartacus threads. They were brilliant. In fact, going to look them up and post them.

That was quite funny in the end

Glad I listened.

Yes, I really hope that people do go on MN and search transgender and see the many informed and reasonable discussions and superb posters.

If I was India I wouldn't be directing people to those threads. There's nothing like realizing that you're not alone to encourage women who might be feeling afraid to speak out to start doing so.

I have to go out - can someone keep track of the time they come on - that way I can listen later :)

Missed it dammit. Any idea when it will available to listen again?
@AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth Please do post the Spartacus threads! I've tried looking for them but my searching skills weren't good enough.

doh - read the thread...

I thought that was good. Justine came over as very reasonable, IW talked over everyone as per usual and threw around allegations of transphobia.
And JHB is going to discuss again tomorrow. All adding to the oxygen of publicity that this debate has been starved of for years - which is why we're in the mess that we are in.

And yes, the more people search these threads and think for themselves about the issues the better. The Jean Hatchett threads are a particular eye opener at the moment IMHO.

All adding to the oxygen of publicity that this debate has been starved of for years - which is why we're in the mess that we are in

Absolutely agree with that.

That was one of the best bits of radio I have ever listened to.

Julia HB, Justine, I applaud you both.

India - I presume you are reading? You made so many huge mistakes :D

You shouted over a popular female presenter on her own show when asked to speak about whether trans identified males have the right to stop women speaking. Own goal.

You appeared to insist that 'trans women are women' even when they have a penis. You brought that to a wider audience.

You brought up the fact that the Guides are letting teenage boys sleep in with the girls as if that was normal and acceptable, and got angry when Julia pointed out that some teenage boys are sexual predators. To a wider audience who must be questioning their own ears.

You invited more people to come to Mumsnet! Let them come and join the conversation! You did it thinking that most people would want to shut it down??!! And you specifically told them to look for the Spartacus threads, when those threads are a glorious show of solidarity between hundreds of women standing up to say WE DON'T BELIEVE IN THE GENDER RELIGION. If you wanted people to think we are a set of fringe extremists, that was the worst place you could pick!

Those few minutes have made my morning :D

V little support for IW in the comments below her Twitter post about going on Talkradio to talk about MN.

Yes JHB is discussing girl guides tomorrow - her daughter is a guide.

Excellent. JHB is a great interviewer. Much better than the wimpy men who are so confused about the whole thing they can't actually interview TW.