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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My elderly parents peak transed today

333 replies

MyBeloved · 20/02/2018 18:33

I was having a lively debate with my parents (both in their 80s and incredibly with it and intelligent) and the subject of womens only safe spaces came up. I decided to tell them about the proposed issues involving TIMs.

And they peak transed.

So begins the spread of this information among their friends, and the ripples will spread.

OP posts:
Patodp · 20/02/2018 20:16

I agree that women should have rights obviously but trans people are women and for the most part genuinely feel that way and will transition completely

OK three things in that paragraph alone are the opposite of a fact.

GinAndSonic · 20/02/2018 20:16

Phoenix- define "transition completely" because evidence suggests that the majority of TIM retain their male genitals and, from what I've seen online, tell women whose opinions they don't like, to "suck my dick"

phoenixtherabbit · 20/02/2018 20:17

Danielle Muscato is quite clearly part of the minority i mentioned who are spoiling it for those who genuinely are transitioning.

Hating one person isn't enough reason to make life hard for a whole group of people imo.

If peak transed is ok, is peak (insert religion or race here)? No? Why not?

phoenixtherabbit · 20/02/2018 20:17

gin the majority? Really?

GinAndSonic · 20/02/2018 20:18

The majority do keep their male genitals, yes

phoenixtherabbit · 20/02/2018 20:19

Where are your stats for that?

rowdywoman1 · 20/02/2018 20:20

phoenixtherabbit
Should this charmer's crimes be recorded as being by a man or a woman?
transcrimeuk.com/2017/10/31/jasmine-hill/

Are there any issues about having sexual offences being committed by a trans identifying man recorded as being done by a woman?

MrsDoyleFallingOutTheWindow · 20/02/2018 20:20

Around 80% as I understand it.

Patodp · 20/02/2018 20:20

I agree that women should have rights obviously but trans people are women no they are not and for the most part genuinely feel that way no a large majority have AGP not gender disphoria and will transition completely* less than 5% of transgende people undergo genital reassignment surgery.

TerfyMcTerface · 20/02/2018 20:22

It's estimated that 80% of trans women keep their genitals. "Trans" is now a wide umbrella, of which old-fashioned transsexuals are a minority. The trans "umbrella" includes transvestites, cross-dressers, fetishists, autogynephiles and some violent sexual offenders. That is why we have an issue with self-identification.

phoenixtherabbit · 20/02/2018 20:23

What is agp?

Nikitasol · 20/02/2018 20:23

I'm finding the thought of it as someone who is currently accessing Domestic abuse charity support, incredibly worrying.

It feels like in my circles - socialist /anarchist, that I can't express this worry as a number of friends are queer/gender queer or thinking about transitioning. I'm finding it really problematic though.

MrsDoyleFallingOutTheWindow · 20/02/2018 20:23

Anyway go you OP. I peak transed my parents a while ago when I asked them if they'd be happy with an intact man sharing a hospital room with my mum. Then I went on to talk about rape crisis centres having men in them and my dad lost his shit. He's 82.

Patodp · 20/02/2018 20:23

If peak transed is ok, is peak (insert religion or race here)? No? Why not?

Well apparently no one can self identify their way into a different race or religion. If they could we'd probably peak a few times about all those self identified Hispanics.
But it's confined to sex for some reason.

phoenixtherabbit · 20/02/2018 20:24

Of course you can self identify to a religion. You're not born a Christian or whatever

phoenixtherabbit · 20/02/2018 20:25

Also pretty sure not all trans women regardless of genitals are sex criminals.

Patodp · 20/02/2018 20:25

AGP is what many Transwoman have. It's nothing like gender dysphoria, it's being sexually aroused at the thought of yourself as a woman.

TerfyMcTerface · 20/02/2018 20:26

What is agp

Autogynephiles. Google it and let us know if you're happy to have them in your changing rooms and doing your smear test.

TheXXFactor · 20/02/2018 20:28

what is agp?

Getting sexual kicks by dressing/passing as a woman. Good explanation - written by a trans person - here

Some men with AGP get sexual thrills from accessing women's spaces and making women frightened/sexually intimidated. Are you happy sharing changing rooms with them, phoenix? I'm not

Elendon · 20/02/2018 20:29

One day, hopefully, you will all be 80 and terribly delighted to be called elderly especially if you are intelligent and with it.

Ouchbirthhurted · 20/02/2018 20:29

So Phoenix are you suggesting the GRA should be reformed so only those who have 'fully transitioned' which presumably for transwomen means had surgery to remove their penises, can Self-ID for a GRC? How would this work in eg women's sports where there are different physical things that impact performance (hence why we have male and female competitions at Wimbledon, Olympics etc).

Datun · 20/02/2018 20:30

@1Strawberry

This is cut and pasted from a thread where someone didn't know what this trans discussion was all about and wanted people to break it down for them.

"Yes, peak trans is meant to invoke the image of a hill.

So people might start in the foothills wondering what on earth women are talking about, why is it so important?

Then they begin to question. Still not sure, because up until now, they didn't see any problem. Why not be nice? What's the big deal?

Then they start to understand the concepts. Sometimes they still waver, because this all feels like it's happening somewhere else. Online, or not really affecting them. And anyway, feminists have a downer on men, so it's unsurprising they're cross. And, honestly, I know a transwoman and she's absolutely delightful.

Then they read about a rapist being transferred to a female prison. So what, one news story. Are you saying all transwomen are rapists?!

Then they read about the woman who asked for a female HCP and got a man. Oh well, a little uncomfortable, but still, what's the big deal? Then they read that the woman was called a transphobic bigot for objecting.

Hmmm, well that's a bit off. I may not mind a man doing my smear test, but I can understand women who do. It's not really bigoted.

At this point you have advanced a few hundred yards up the hill.

Then a sports story is mentioned on here. A mediocre male weightlifter suddenly winning awards by competing as a woman.

Oh, whatever, I don't like sport anyway.

Then another one. Then someone in cycling, fell running, roller derby, football, cricket, golf.

Then suddenly it appears to be less about sport, and more about women being disadvantaged.

The crampons come out and you advance another few hundred yards up the hill.

Then you notice that a 19-year-old boy has been elected as labour's women's officer. Oh well, he probably feels like a woman inside. That's gender dysphoria, right?

Except he starts to compile a secret list of all women who disagree with him to get them ousted from the party. Despite his remit being to include as many women as possible in the party. Claims he can get pregnant in that biology is irrelevant.

Then you start to notice intimidating tactics against women. Meetings to discuss the upcoming law change are targetted, a 60-year-old woman is hit at speakers corner. Venues pull out, peoples jobs are threatened, they are doxxed online, they are reported to the police for disagreeing.

You scramble up towards the peak of the hill.

Then someone tells you about autogynephilia, and all the men's rights activists flocking to the trans movement. You realise that it is actually true that the government is legislating to legitimise a fetish.

You peak. You look back down the hill and can't believe you ever stood at the bottom.

Then you read of 2 transwomen, one of whom has been asked to speak at the Women's March. Who claims that being treated like a piece of meat by men is sexy and objectification is hot. And because they are woman, they speak on behalf of women. And the other one who claims that women are allowed to go to the Women's March, as long as they don't talk about their reproductive systems. You know, the very basis of women's oppression. Because it excludes men. The ones who are doing the oppressing.

And you peak all over again.

This keeps going.

You look at the handful of men with gender dysphoria and how to include them, and wish, with all your heart, that it could be that simple again."

Thread here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

ALittleBitOfButter · 20/02/2018 20:30

Ago = autogynophilia, a man who is sexually aroused at being perceived as a woman. Heterosexual men who transition do so for agp reasons. They have coopted the words and descriptions of the old school transsexuals, ie "born in wrong body" "have had to conceal my femininity". But actually they are using transsexuals, who they deride as truscum in their circles, as a human shield so they can exercise their fetish. Many have cluster b personality disorders and enjoy bullying women to "agree" or capitulate that biology and science are wrong.

Wobbleslikeaweeble · 20/02/2018 20:30

Pheonix

That’s the problem. If you don’t believe that TW are women - it’s difficult to get past males redefining what “woman” means, competing in our sports etc. It’s a conflict of beliefs. I don’t know how this can be reconciled.

Ouchbirthhurted · 20/02/2018 20:31

Also pretty sure not all trans women regardless of genitals are sex criminals.

But how do you tell the difference between a genuine trans person wanting to self Id and a sex criminal who wants to shower with female prisoners?

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