Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

My elderly parents peak transed today

333 replies

MyBeloved · 20/02/2018 18:33

I was having a lively debate with my parents (both in their 80s and incredibly with it and intelligent) and the subject of womens only safe spaces came up. I decided to tell them about the proposed issues involving TIMs.

And they peak transed.

So begins the spread of this information among their friends, and the ripples will spread.

OP posts:
iamawoman · 20/02/2018 21:46

Phoenix not all men are rapists but its 'men' who commit the majority of sex related crimes and will go to great lengths to do so ie become primary school teachers, run childrens homes, clergy etc therefore donning a dress to access spaces used by women and young children - well they must be rubbing their hands with glee at beibg able to self id there way into a rape crisis centre!!

Weebo · 20/02/2018 21:46

Of course they deserve rights - For goodness sake no was is saying otherwise and would get their arse handed to them here on MN.

They just cannot come at the expense of women's rights.

GinAndSonic · 20/02/2018 21:47

Phoenix: leaving aside the possibility of sexual assaults etc, do you believe it is bigoted for a woman to not want to take her clothes off in the presence of a man?

TerfyMcTerface · 20/02/2018 21:47

If transwomen don't want to be in male changing rooms, how does opening up women's changing rooms to the very men that transwomen object to sharing with help things?

TheXXFactor · 20/02/2018 21:48

Should we make transwomen use men's changing rooms and let them get raped instead of us

Can you point us to some examples of trans women getting attacked in men's changing rooms?

While you're Googling, you might want to check out this website, which has hundreds of examples of men cross-dressing and assaulting women in public toilets etc.

0123fluffyunicorn · 20/02/2018 21:51

Wtf does peak trans even mean

AngryAttackKittens · 20/02/2018 21:51

@fishdog

More like, yay, now I don't look like I have four boobs any more! And then you realize that part of the reason a lot of women don't realize that a bra that's doing that doesn't fit is that men think it's "sexy" when you're not wearing anything else and don't care that it feels awful and looks awkward in clothes, and most bra advertising is aimed at them rather than us. Which is probably not unrelated to the topic at hand.

SophoclesTheFox · 20/02/2018 21:52

I think I'd reframe your question about rights, phoenix

Do gender non conforming children deserve the right to appropriate, evidence based assistance to explore their feelings and navigate their way safely to adulthood? (because the current direction of travel is only to affirm to them that they are trans, and to medicalise them)

Do camp young boys not have the right to dress up as Elsa without adults deciding that this desire makes them girls?

Do lesbians not deserve the right to lesbian only spaces where people with penises are not welcome?

Do gender non conforming young women with histories of abuse or who are autistic not have the right to be listened to and understood when they say that they want to opt out of womanhood, and helped to explore why they feel that way rather than told that they'll be happier if they cut their breasts off and have a hysterectomy?

All these groups are collateral damage if you frame all of this as a hatred of trans people.

phoenixtherabbit · 20/02/2018 21:53

Well no I can't because I haven't researched it... does that mean it hasn't or won't happen? No probably not.

"They cannot come at the expense of women's rights"

Well there has to be a compromise somewhere no?

fishdogpancakes · 20/02/2018 21:53

Phoenix When I've been raped, hit, damaged and am incredibly vulnerable I need the support of women. I won't be able to talk or open up if a man is there however nice this particular man may be.

When I'm elderly and ill and feeling so low I'd rather be in a ward of other women.

When I'm banned from being near men who are not my family because of my religion I still want to swim, shop and lead an active life in my female only spaces.

When I'm an 11 year old and my body is changing and I'm all confused

and worried I don't want to go clothes shopping with my friends and see adult naked men watching us.

Patodp · 20/02/2018 21:54

Should we make transwomen use men's changing rooms and let them get raped instead of us

Well seeing as women's spaces are heading to become free for all, transwomen will be equally at risk of being raped by any male preditor in women's spaces as women will.

Hurrah for equality.

sauceyorange · 20/02/2018 21:55

Also, phoenix, the proposed reforms would probably remove access to health care or support from trans people- or at least see them drastically cut. Because if all you need is to fill in a form, why Should the state fork out?

This means a lot of troubled young people in particular will be left high and dry.

No one wants to see distressed individuals be disadvantaged or discriminated against. But what EXACTLY is wrong with the system we have now?

What is the problem for which the GRA is the answer? Clue: men's rights activists

Patodp · 20/02/2018 21:57

If transwomen want to use womens space to protect them from males then opening up women's spaces for any males who self identify as women is bonkers.

Weebo · 20/02/2018 21:58

Not according to TRA's Phoenix - There is no compromise - It's shut up, call us women and let us do what we like otherwise you are a violent TERF bigot.

You understand they are the ones causing the conflict?

fishdogpancakes · 20/02/2018 21:58

angrykittens Ah yes, I remember the discomfort of having to wear thongs every day because that's what my husband (ex) insisted on.
Now I have lovely big cotton granny pants and my bottom thanks me!

SophoclesTheFox · 20/02/2018 21:58

Well no I can't because I haven't researched it

No, but a lot of women here have. I'm not having a pop, but there are a lot of women here who really have a handle on this stuff, so coming here and just saying we're all bigots isn't fair, accurate or helpful.

Lots of us here started off as trans allies. Many/most of us still are. I'm an ally to the vulnerable people who are the collateral damage in the drive to pretend that transwomen and women are the same - lesbians, autistic girls, gender-non conforming children who would otherwise grow out of it if left alone etc etc. All of these populations are damaged by transactivism. Do you hate them?

Course you don't. But you're chucking them under the bus, make no mistake about it.

wakemeupbefore · 20/02/2018 21:59

Is 'peak transing' all and sundty akin to Jehovas' Witnesses work?

Patodp · 20/02/2018 22:00

Well there has to be a compromise somewhere no?

Feminists keep crying out for a separate space or option for trans people. Apparently this is transphobic. It's just logical.

Riverside2 · 20/02/2018 22:01

I explained it to my olds a year or so ago
They told me I was worrying too much and GRA proposals wouldn't get through
Now they're worried too!

AngryAttackKittens · 20/02/2018 22:01

No more floss for your bum! I'd dump anyone who insisted on that too, let him wear one if he thinks it's so great.

Phoenix, we aren't the ones creating the problem for the old-school dysphoria having transsexuals. The current blowback is the result of the trans umbrella being opened so wide that it now includes people who 20 years ago no psychiatrist would have allowed to transition. Eddie Izzard now says he's trans. Do you think he's a woman?

frogsoup · 20/02/2018 22:06

I genuinely don't understand the 'you are tarring all transwomen with the same brush, calling them rapists' argument. You don't bristle at the fact that your husband or father aren't allowed into the women's changing rooms, and you know that they aren't rapists. We don't have sex-based segregation because we think all men are rapists or gropers, we have it because we know that some of them are, and that unfortunately they don't come with that fact etched across their foreheads.

AngryAttackKittens · 20/02/2018 22:08

Exactly. I don't want to get changed at the swimming pool in the same room as my dad. He's lovely, would never hurt me, no fear there at all, it would just be weird and uncomfortable. Women are allowed to feel weird and uncomfortable about being naked in front of male people who we don't have a sexual relationship with.

ExFunFeminist · 20/02/2018 22:08

Should we make transwomen use men's changing rooms and let them get raped instead of us? Is that ok?

How about no one gets raped and the focus shifts to male violence, and yes, that will have to include transwomen as they offend at the same rate as men. Source here

Laqueue · 20/02/2018 22:08

Why should it be women who have to compromise, phoenix?

Why is it always women who have to accept shit and shove over, and make room?

Why can't the men?

Patodp · 20/02/2018 22:11

is 'peak transing' all and sundty akin to Jehovas' Witnesses work

You only need to mention a couple of things that have happened in real life and the peaking does its work for you. You don't even need to try.
Most people are simply completely oblivious.