Boys can enter girls' dormitories at state boarding school

[pisacake]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-boys-to-board-withgirls-at-gordons-school-qrllwztm3

"Gordon’s School in Woking, Surrey, is drawing up guidance for pupils saying they can ask to wear the uniform of the opposite sex, be addressed by a different name and/or pronouns, use gender-neutral ­lavatories, grow their hair long if they are boys, change their accommodation and wear make-up and jewellery."

Note that the uniform policy says:

www.gordons.surrey.sch.uk/uniform

"Make-up and nail varnish are both not allowed. This includes all make-up.
Girls are only allowed one earring in the lobe of each ear – no other piercings are allowed. With the exception of the above rule, jewellery is not allowed."

So it appears they are allowing make-up in order to cater for boys who want to dress up as girls. Line edited by MNHQ

"The school said it had acted because it had “become aware of students who would ‘come out’ after leaving the school”. It wanted pupils to feel safe to do so while still in their care."

Being safe obviously means allowing boys to sleep in the girls dormitories which are supposed to be safe spaces for girls who may be thousands of miles from their parents (most boarders are army children).

"The Boarding Schools’ Association has issued guidance to schools saying that if a boy intends to change gender he should be offered the chance to sleep in the girls’ dormitory and vice versa."

"Not all parents are happy about such changes. On Friday, parents at Highgate, a coeducational London private day school, received a letter from the head teacher, Adam Pettitt, apologising for the introduction of gender-neutral lavatories. Some younger pupils, he admitted, had felt “less comfortable and happy at school” as a result.

Highgate brought in the lavatories “to support gender-fluid pupils”, only for parents to ask if the change was “proportionate” given how few such students were at the school."

What about intersex children? female children internally who have been born with some form of penis etc.
It isnt as black and white as penis in one room, vagina in the other.
Unless they are my sexual partner, it is of no concern to me.

Meet Pippa/Phillip Bunce, he literally does decide whether he's wearing a skirt that day and whether he's a woman or a man so which toilets to use.
He also is one of the top 30 women in business according to the financial times.

www.fnlondon.com/articles/mistranslated-i-split-my-time-as-pippa-and-philip-20171002

What about intersex children? This has nothing to do with trans children.

What about intersex children?

We respect them and leave them out of these discussions just like they have requested to be.

www.isna.org/faq/transgender

This is what the intersex society of North America say on the subject.

I dont get the concern then. You are saying the problem is having a penis in with girls? no?
Theese are transgender children

Theese are transgender children

So you admit that they're not actually girls then? Great. We're finally getting somewhere.

Pardon Tempo I don't get the point you're trying to make, could you elaborate?

Yes in possession of fully functioning genitals producing sperm and reacting to hormones present in the body amongst semi baked bio females.

Underage sex is a huge issue all over the world.

Trans won't change that it's just an extra layer to the situation.

Semi naked

"What about intersex children? female children internally who have been born with some form of penis etc."

Gender assignment is performed at birth based on scientific tests.

For example, androgen insensitivity (XY chromosomes but insensitivity to male hormones) will result in infertile female-bodied (breasts and vagina) humans who are attracted sexually to men.

True hermaphroditism is extremely rare and essentially irrelevant to the trans discussion.

Many intersex people get very upset when the trans use them in their arguments.
Some Intersex people have been fighting a long time for their bodies not to be seen as 'wrong' that need correcting and it's very upsetting for them to be used by trans to push the opposite.

I have never said the are girls ive always used the term girls +trans girls in this discussion.
The reason I mentioned intersex children is because many people are discussing sex (penis or vagina) and not considering gender.
Of course i understand the difference between, intersex and transgender, and i get this discussion is about trangender children.
An intersex child may be (incorrectly?) assigned for example female at birth but may grow up and feel male, this is because the mind and the body do not always correlate(rare, a small percenatage of intersex child experiance problems with their gender identity and often live as the sex they are assigned at birth, but equally a small percentage of male/female children identify as a gender they are not biologically assigned to.) To a transgender child, with gender dysphoria there is a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity. I hope that both get support, help and protection to identify as their GENDER, with this also including surgery and hormones if they wish.
This isnt about female or male = penis or vagina. It is medically recognised that it is not that simple.
This school is not letting boys in with the girls and girls in with the boys, it is allowing trangender Children to live according to their gender identity.

TempStamos
We are talking about children here, the school arent going to say you can be a boy today and a girl tomorrow. Of course these children have gender dysphoria, their parents are not going to make them identify as the opposite gender, change their name, their clothes, visit doctors/therapist and apply to a school to identify as this gender for a laugh.

None of that will be necessary soon, no need for therapists and doctors, or gender dysphoria. The proposed changes to the GRA will make all of that irrelevant, and ALL that will be necessary is for someone to say 'I identify as a girl' and they will have to be treated as a girl. It's already happening:
GirlguidingUK have changed their policies so that anyone can be a brownie/guide/adult leader if they 'identify' as a girl/woman. In girlguiding, biologically male people can share sleeping accommodation with females without any need for proof of medical transition whatsoever, without any need for parental consent, or indeed, knowledge of the situation. If you believe that girls and women should have to share intimate spaces with biological males, that is your opinion, but don't imagine that there will be some kind of gate-keeping, some 'sincerity level' that must be reached, because the bar is being set and all it needs is the magic words: 'I identify as....'

As @ordermeacurry said: "I am a transwoman and I don't use the women's toilets and that is because I am not female."

That's pretty much it. A teenage boy who 'feels' like a girl is not female. And therefore shouldn't share intimate spaces with females. If they don't want to be with the boys, that's fine but that shouldn't be the girls' problem.

Self identification will soon be a thing
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/transgender-rules-reform-gender-dysphoria-changes-2004-gender-recognition-self-identify-a7855381.html

It won't matter about gender dysphoria. As I said earlier, when I was in the NHS (I left 3 years ago) they were pushing and pushing to move away from the expensive diagnosis of gender dysphoria. Self identification will come in and your sex will no longer matter a jot.

Yeah and that's the issue.

What is a gender identity??

What on earth makes someone 'feel like a woman'
Are you able to tell me how you feel like a woman without referring to your biology or a gender stereotype?

Gender is a construction of a patriarchal society designed to keep people in their places, gender identity is meaningless.
Feminists have literally fought for years to break the shackles of gender so we are not made to behave or be treat in a certain way simply because of our genitals.

When a man comes along and says 'he feels like a woman' because he likes make up and hanging out with girls then what are the implications of that to what womanhood is.

You are conflating unrelated issues.

Sex is anatomically apparent at birth.

The sex of intersex individuals is also determined at birth, subject to receiving appropriate medical care and screening.

There is no difference between intersex and non-intersex individuals there.

None at all. So it is irrelevant to raise the issue of intersex, because intersex conditions are nonetheless sexually deterministic.

There is no male, female and 'intersex'. Intersex people are either male or female.

There is no 'gender identity', because gender identity is based on feelings which CANNOT be determined at birth, whereas the expression of sex in intersex individuals IS determined at birth, as with non-intersex individuals. You should not suggest or imply that intersex individuals are somehow confused about their identity or are likely to change their minds. An androgen-insensitive XY-chromosomed individual will develop female characteristics. They are not likely to suddenly decide that they 'identify as a man'.

It is not about 'feelings', but genetics. A boy who, aged 13, feels that they are actually a girl, does not stop being a boy.

I have never said the are girls ive always used the term girls +trans girls in this discussion.

Therefore they shouldn't be in the girls spaces, should they?

The reason I mentioned intersex children is because many people are discussing sex (penis or vagina) and not considering gender.

Why would people here consider gender? I'm going to let you in on a little secret here, okay? Gender doesn't actually exist. It's a social construct and the world would be a much better place if it didn't exist. Gender is limiting. It is damaging to both men and women and we should just get rid of it all together and just let people be who they want to be.

An intersex child may be (incorrectly?) assigned for example female at birth but may grow up and feel male

Nobody is assigned male or female at birth, incorrectly or otherwise. Your sex is noted and recorded based on whether you have a penis or a vagina.

A girl with an intersex disorder is still a girl. She may grow up and want to be male instead. She may develop gender dysphoria as people with intersex disorders are not immune to it. She may decide to start to transition but she will still be a transman/transboy. She will just happen to be a transman/transboy with an intersex disorder.

To a transgender child, with gender dysphoria there is a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity.

No that's not what gender dysphoria is because you know, gender doesn't actually exist.

I hope that both get support, help and protection to identify as their GENDER, with this also including surgery and hormones if they wish.

So do I. Unfortunately it is now becoming impossible for people suffering gender dysphoria to get appropriate mental health support because it is being withdrawn as mental health support is now viewed as transphobic. You might want to think about that.

This isnt about female or male = penis or vagina. It is medically recognised that it is not that simple.

Except it is that simple. If you have a penis you are male and if you have a vagina you are female. There is no in between sex or a third sex. There is no such thing as a male brain or a female brain, nor is it possible to actually be born in the wrong body. A small minority of people have intersex disorders (have a think about what the word disorder means for a sec, okay?) but they are still either male or female.

it is allowing trangender Children to live according to their gender identity.

But again, how do we verify gender identity? It is impossible to prove. We just have to take their word for it.

We are fighting in the wrong direction, we should be trying to create a world where people can wear whatever they fuck they like, call themselves what they like and not made to feel like they are 'in the wrong body' for doing so.

And as for gender identity, up thread I listed some of the things I saw some trans people trot out as attributes of being a woman (for them). They included lipstick, rose gold watches and Beyoncé.

I dont think women and girls should have to share with men or boys, I think trans girls should be allowed to shared with girls and trans boys should be allowed to share with boys.
I stongly feel the need for a gender dysphoria diagnosis, to protect innocent females, males and trans people from criminals (rapists, perverts, paedophile etc who may prentend to be the opposite sex for any other reason than to conform to their gender identity)
In this situation where children are concerned I can almost garuntee for the child to be allowed by the school to indentify as their gender not their sex, their will be involvement and cooperation with the trans childrens parents, doctors and therapists.

Also speaking as someone who actually does have personal experience of this considering I am trans and all, I think life would have been far easier for me if gender was just scrapped completely. People aren't helping us by enforcing all this gender crap everywhere.

This really worries me. It worries me that transwomen are infringing women's rights and spaces. I also think it is so harmful to boys. Boys should be allowed to have long hair, wear make-up, dress how they want, without effectively being told that this means they are a girl! The whole notion of "feeling" like a girl is utter crap. No-one has ever defined what that even means.
Separate by sex, not gender.

@order and @pisa said it much better than me