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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boys can enter girls' dormitories at state boarding school

325 replies

pisacake · 15/10/2017 11:04

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-boys-to-board-withgirls-at-gordons-school-qrllwztm3

"Gordon’s School in Woking, Surrey, is drawing up guidance for pupils saying they can ask to wear the uniform of the opposite sex, be addressed by a different name and/or pronouns, use gender-neutral ­lavatories, grow their hair long if they are boys, change their accommodation and wear make-up and jewellery."

Note that the uniform policy says:

www.gordons.surrey.sch.uk/uniform

"Make-up and nail varnish are both not allowed. This includes all make-up.
Girls are only allowed one earring in the lobe of each ear – no other piercings are allowed. With the exception of the above rule, jewellery is not allowed."

So it appears they are allowing make-up in order to cater for boys who want to dress up as girls. Line edited by MNHQ

"The school said it had acted because it had “become aware of students who would ‘come out’ after leaving the school”. It wanted pupils to feel safe to do so while still in their care."

Being safe obviously means allowing boys to sleep in the girls dormitories which are supposed to be safe spaces for girls who may be thousands of miles from their parents (most boarders are army children).

"The Boarding Schools’ Association has issued guidance to schools saying that if a boy intends to change gender he should be offered the chance to sleep in the girls’ dormitory and vice versa."

"Not all parents are happy about such changes. On Friday, parents at Highgate, a coeducational London private day school, received a letter from the head teacher, Adam Pettitt, apologising for the introduction of gender-neutral lavatories. Some younger pupils, he admitted, had felt “less comfortable and happy at school” as a result.

Highgate brought in the lavatories “to support gender-fluid pupils”, only for parents to ask if the change was “proportionate” given how few such students were at the school."

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 16/10/2017 11:48

This is a thread from 2012 discussing a similar issue, except the majority of the posters are being accepting and open minded about the issue

Because they didn't know then how much piss was going to be taken or how ridiculous, sexist and harmful this would get.

HornyTortoise · 16/10/2017 11:49

Also when its 'just' loos a lot of people are willing to make the exception. A lot also are not, as piss wil be taken (both literally and figuratively). This is not just loos.

SelmaAndJubjub · 16/10/2017 11:51

temp is just winding us up in an attempt to derail an interesting and thoughtful thread. I suggest we stop engaging.

Jaxhog · 16/10/2017 11:57

Shared intimate spaces like accommodation should be segregated by sex, not gender identity.
This is the point really. Is it right that you make one or two people comfortable, while making a whole group of girls feel vulnerable?

I do worry that Gender identity seems to be coming down to what you look like (clothes, make-up, jewelry etc.) and not just how you feel.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 16/10/2017 12:30

I fail to understand why colluding in a lie is kinder to transpeople. By all means wear what you want, and ensure all people are treated with dignity and have their bodily privacy respected.

All the empirical science currently available supports the claim that sex is immutable and cannot be changed. Of course it is not possible to know anything for certain, but science currently supports this. Simply saying that because you feel something it makes it true, is not equivalent to empirical facts. If, at some point in the future, it can scientifically proven with the same certainty that sex can be changed, then we can adopt that position. But not before, because there is no evidence to support this claim.

You would think that the Enlightenment never happened

SentimentalLentil · 16/10/2017 12:40

I happen to think telling a child that if they have painful surgerys then they can change sex is extremely cruel, when it's not true.

morningrunner · 16/10/2017 12:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CAAKE · 16/10/2017 12:44

Boy George has tweeted about this story in a v sensible manner - lots of supportive posters agreeing with him.

twitter.com/boygeorge/status/919828215044165632

The message is slowly getting through.

CAAKE · 16/10/2017 13:01

Screen shot here -

Boys can enter girls' dormitories at state boarding school
fairyofallthings · 16/10/2017 13:40

there wasn't people just swapping between the two willy nilly (pun intended)

Grin
Datun · 16/10/2017 14:14

If there’s one thing that Boy George knows about it’s how to do make up. And wear feminine clothing. As a man.

It’s almost as though these things are not sex specific and have nothing to do with being a woman.

Funny that.

MillicentFawcett · 16/10/2017 14:25

The increase in referrals to the Tavi since 2012 is 500%. A very large number of those are primary school age. Don't tell me that's about young people being more comfortable coming out, that is about social contagion.

gids.nhs.uk/number-referrals

HornyTortoise · 16/10/2017 14:33

Surprised Boy George hasn't had an onsluaght of messages calling him a TERF and telling him that he is actually trans as he is femine tbh.

Then again, he is a guy. The 'die in a fire TERF' reples seem solely reserved for females.

HornyTortoise · 16/10/2017 14:33

onslaught and feminine, obviously

SentimentalLentil · 16/10/2017 14:43

Exactly horny obviously when women women have an issue it's because we just don't understand what's going on, that we're bigots and that we hate progress and people who are different.

BriechonCheese · 16/10/2017 15:31

I'm wondering if people shouldn't now demand to be recognised as their sex and not their gender? It's as legitimate to demand as those wishing to be defined/recognised by gender.

StealthPolarBear · 16/10/2017 16:01

Boy George is presumably too old for all this crap (man George :o) and wouldn't be swayed. He even calls himself 'boy' and presumably would laugh if there were suggestions he self identify as a woman.
Probably time he started identifying as a man mind...

miri1985 · 16/10/2017 16:10

Don't tell me that's about young people being more comfortable coming out, that is about social contagion.

Really interesting article about how the rise in bulimia was caused by contagion nymag.com/scienceofus/article/how-bulimia-became-a-medical-diagnosis.html

user1496321962 · 16/10/2017 16:42

WHAT? Angry

hipsterfun · 16/10/2017 17:06

What what?

Datun · 16/10/2017 17:15

Websites set up for the parents of children who say they are trans have a piece of advice that is first and foremost, and that is get them off the Internet.

thedancingbear · 16/10/2017 17:16

There's nothing wrong with discussing the deficiencies with the trans agenda, including how it bears on the situation described by the OP. I'd even agree with much of what posters are saying and arguing here.

But describing pre-teen boys who want to wear makeup and skirts as 'cartoon stripper girls' is fucking offensive - and downright creepy - as it comes. It also seems to cut across a huge part of feminist ideology. This is halfway down the OP and, from what I can see, not a single poster has challenged it.

So, yep, I'm calling 'transphobia' here. Big time.

MissMoneyPlant · 16/10/2017 17:22
Hmm It's actually deeply misogynistic for males to dress as a stereotyped sexualised version of womanhood and claim they are female, but hey ho.
thedancingbear · 16/10/2017 17:24

they're 11-year old kids ffs.

pisacake · 16/10/2017 17:27

Who are 11 year-old kids? Where are you getting this from? It's a school from age 11 to 18.

Have you any reason whatsoever to believe that the trans kids involved are 11?

OP posts: