Boys can enter girls' dormitories at state boarding school

[pisacake]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-boys-to-board-withgirls-at-gordons-school-qrllwztm3

"Gordon’s School in Woking, Surrey, is drawing up guidance for pupils saying they can ask to wear the uniform of the opposite sex, be addressed by a different name and/or pronouns, use gender-neutral ­lavatories, grow their hair long if they are boys, change their accommodation and wear make-up and jewellery."

Note that the uniform policy says:

www.gordons.surrey.sch.uk/uniform

"Make-up and nail varnish are both not allowed. This includes all make-up.
Girls are only allowed one earring in the lobe of each ear – no other piercings are allowed. With the exception of the above rule, jewellery is not allowed."

So it appears they are allowing make-up in order to cater for boys who want to dress up as girls. Line edited by MNHQ

"The school said it had acted because it had “become aware of students who would ‘come out’ after leaving the school”. It wanted pupils to feel safe to do so while still in their care."

Being safe obviously means allowing boys to sleep in the girls dormitories which are supposed to be safe spaces for girls who may be thousands of miles from their parents (most boarders are army children).

"The Boarding Schools’ Association has issued guidance to schools saying that if a boy intends to change gender he should be offered the chance to sleep in the girls’ dormitory and vice versa."

"Not all parents are happy about such changes. On Friday, parents at Highgate, a coeducational London private day school, received a letter from the head teacher, Adam Pettitt, apologising for the introduction of gender-neutral lavatories. Some younger pupils, he admitted, had felt “less comfortable and happy at school” as a result.

Highgate brought in the lavatories “to support gender-fluid pupils”, only for parents to ask if the change was “proportionate” given how few such students were at the school."

I work in a boarding school and it’s a really thorny issue. However all schools are going to have to be prepared to admit transgender pupils at some point.

Ideally they wouldn’t share a room, for their own dignity and privacy as well as to avoid the problem of who they would share with.

No boy just chucks on a dress and decides to board in a girls boarding school. Of course the child is going to have to demonstrate fairly clearly that they are living as the other sex.

As a boarding school we’d be concerned with the privacy and safety of BOTH the other students and the transgender student themselves.

Oh by the way it would take more for a boy to be admitted to the girls dorms than simply turning up for interview in a dress.

There’s some shocking simplistic thinking going on here, but I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised.

Oh by the way it would take more for a boy to be admitted to the girls dorms than simply turning up for interview in a dress.

At the moment, but if the self-ID laws come into place then all the boy has to do is say that he identifies as a girl.

Another one that hates the idea that wearing make-up makes you female - I never wear make-up, or dresses for that matter, definitely still a woman though.

I wonder how they would treat this the other way around? A girl identified as a boy, would they put her in the boys dorm? If so they would be extremely reckless with her/his safety. If something happened to her in there would the school be opening themselves up to legal action for allowing this even though the child may have insisted they wanted to be in with the boys?

It's good your thinking is so sophisticated that it actually transforms reality, poppl. Have you read The Secret?

Alas the rest of humanity is still scratching around in the dirt where little girls are raped every day and babies are made with sperm and egg, not pronouns.

Oh, sorry that was bitchy. Ugh. I meant what I said but I could have said it in a less sarky way. Mea culpa.

I work in a boarding school and it’s a really thorny issue.

It shouldn't be. Girls are female children, not male children. The definition of female shouldn't change depending on the want of a boy.

I don't know how these schools teach biology.

". Of course the child is going to have to demonstrate fairly clearly that they are living as the other sex."
I don't think there's any "of course" about it. As far as I can see the only requirement for being treated as a female is to say you are one.

The uniform rules are different from the make up rules though. So uniform means no make up. After school though, students can wear makeup with their non uniform (mufti). It isn't a different rule for transgender girls than for girls.

The trouble is that schools are getting their advice from transgender organisations - who mainly have a political agenda of furthering the interests of transgender people. They don't have safeguarding training or presumably any interest in the welfare and safeguarding of children generally.
If you look at some of their training materials and advice for schools it is full of 'musts' and 'immediate' and directions to not ask questions - which is at complete variance with all safeguarding advice for teachers which insists that teachers must ask and question and always share and refer...
I don't believe ANY other interest group has been allowed to put their own agenda into schools in this way - schools are meant to be politically neutral, to screen adults / training organisations before letting them loose in a school. But as this is done under the 'equality ' banner, schools are allowing some dreadful scientifically and biologically inaccurate and biased material to be shared with their staff as 'facts'. And all under the caution that' to question is to be transphobic'
And then we're surprised when they come out with lunacies about teenage boys in girls' sleeping accommodation.

BigDesk schools also teach about human rights, treating others with respect and being kind and understanding of those with differences.

So yes, it’s a thorny issue

I haven’t ever seen a MN trans thread which doesn’t end up being utterly bitchy, so I’m going to bow out.

Personally I’m glad that schools respect difference, try to accommodate all (whilst maintaining safeguarding standards which they have to attend to by law) and promote tolerance.

Today 18:21 StealthPolarBear

". Of course the child is going to have to demonstrate fairly clearly that they are living as the other sex."
I don't think there's any "of course" about it. As far as I can see the only requirement for being treated as a female is to say you are one.

^
This.
With self ID laws likely to be pushed through, it soon will be as simple as saying you identify as a, b or c and everyone has to accommodate you. Including minors.

schools also teach about human rights, treating others with respect and being kind and understanding of those with differences.

Surely that works both ways though? A transgirls wants and needs are not more important than what a girl wants and needs. Respect is a two way street.

Children being made to feel uncomfortable and less happy at school. Never mind. Just so long as they are being politically correct.

It is perfectly possible to respect a trans girls needs and help them feel accepted and accommodated without deciding that they must always use the girls facilities no matter what.

Well said popple

I’d be interested to know how child safeguarding and protection organisations and professionals are negotiating the complexities of this issue.

BigDesk schools also teach about human rights, treating others with respect and being kind and understanding of those with differences.

But if its a single sex school, one would expect there to be one of the sexes there. Kids can still be taught to be kind and understanding of those with differences, without making a single sex school...essentially open to both sexes.

What did you mean by theres more to it than turning up in a dress? You say - Of course the child is going to have to demonstrate fairly clearly that they are living as the other sex.

What is demonstrating they are 'living as the other sex' besides ridiculous stereotypes such as wearing dresses?

popple
Please let us know how the difference needs of both girls and transgender children can be met - at the moment the human rights, tolerance and respect seems a bit of a one way street with the experiences and needs of girls and women being disrespected every step of the way.

poppl

I'd really like to know what, in your opinion, this means?

Of course the child is going to have to demonstrate fairly clearly that they are living as the other sex.

What does it actually mean?

Can you give me, say the top three things that would mean a boy was living life as a girl, that didn't involve outside people placing him in girls spaces or him choosing to wear different clothes?

Well quite, Order.

hipsterfun. I suspect that these organisations are not negotiating the safeguarding complexities as they have suspended their critical faculties and simply accept the dogma 'if I (or my parents if I'm a young child) say I am the opposite sex then I am - and no questions to be asked as that's transphobic and literal violence'.

theendisnotnigh

I agree with that. I'm also convinced that even if they did have any doubts, they would think they were wrong somehow. And are petrified of mentioning it in case they get slammed.

I don't get why the response is not "we separate the sexes, so it's not possible to be accommodated as you wish. However, we are willing to look into any alternatives that you present to us". And that goes for everything relating to sex separated provision.

When did the PTB become so bad at setting boundaries? Oh, when it comes to women...

Oh, and, yes, someone please provide The List. I need to know if I'm a woman.